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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Frostbiter01" data-source="post: 6824199" data-attributes="member: 6677201">Thank you all for your comments.I like some of these. We did see the arrow slit but as it was brought up it is one thing to have an opening that is fixed but one that is moving around you end up with a much harder touch AC which I believe one of you said to add the concealment or cover that would have affected the spot he was aiming for. Some of you say it is mundane but it is not and you may play fast and loose so that is ok. I know some DMs are Monty hall types & love to give the players everything and make sure they never die. Dragons that fight with no breath weapon, Beholders that only try to use slow and charm or have powerful deities save them are the norm. In other cases they like to insert powerful NPCs to boss or force the players to play they want them to play and save them from all ill woes, so they can DM and play a character themselves. As for me I like the rules to be consistent I feel it is the best way to play and many of my players have agreed. For instance I mentioned when attacking a creature you apparently can hit those spindly armed creatures if all you can see is one point (corner) of that Trolls space with a small orb or ray so that would mean it also possibly causes an issue if you are trying to fire past that same square. Also if in melee you take a -4 because you don't want to hit your own player, why because they are moving left, right, ducking and jumping in their space, maybe just standing straight and roaring just how much flavor you give your battles will show you how much movement is actually going on in that troll space or character space. Not to mention swords and axes and shields moving to deflect as quick as a blink of an eye. We also have the rule of obstruction. That again is a -4 when a creature is between you and your target. Indeed the Sorcerer wants to hit a 5' square about 15' behind the troll and really not hit the ground they want the fireball to explode at the same height as their hand that deep to engulf all the trolls. So we have melee in front of them, we have obstruction rules in front of the target, and we have the fact that any normal spell says if your spell can enter any of those hexes it hits the target when firing at the troll. Remember, Fireball does not need a touch attack it is a direct spell just like rays and lightening bolt. I agree it should not be automatic. I know one of you said you don't like the players to measure out exactly but remember these wizards are experts at their craft and can determine precisely where to go. So you have to let them take their template and place it on the map! I thought about using the touch AC of 10 followed by the dex of the creature which would explain a fast accidental move in front of the spell (I never thought any creature could see it and react) all this is accidental, there is a hole to fire through then just like that, there is not as the creature lunges his body to a side or moved his legs together to fend off the rangers blade. Then modify if in melee, and modify if trying to put it in a square directly where they want to go. It seems I would be using all the rules to figure it out.Thank you again.</blockquote>

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