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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Frostbiter01" data-source="post: 6826141" data-attributes="member: 6677201">You could make this very complex. Obviously those caught in the explosion get a reflex save to see hw much if any damage they take. that is all the parties even if there is no obstruction have to make a save the wizard can drop that spell precisely anywhere he wants like right in front of your nose. So let us look at it this way. A Sorcerer shoots a fireball from 50' away into the square adjacent to a Wizard, Rogue and Fighter. They can't react to it before it gets there per the rules. The Rogue can't tumble away, the wizard can't cast a non readied counter spell nor can the fighter throw his ax or shield 10 ' in front to cause the fireball to erupt. It goes there and they can but only react to the blast itself called a saving throw. Same scenario but this time there are 2 Trolls battling 4 Men-at-arms in front of the Sorcerer about 20' in front of him. He still wants to blast this in a square far enough to get the 3 characters 30' behind the line. Again he needs to get through the line of fighters some who have their back t him. They are moving erratically and constantly. Yet because he cannot fly above to the ceiling which is 10' (Troll head is grazing it) he fires low through the square of one men-at-arms and the right side of one troll square. Neither can avoid it just like the 3 sitting far behind the line cannot. This type of spell (Fireball) requires an unobstructed line for it to reach its target square. This pea size orb that leaves the palm and you have to see if the spell can pass though without being disrupted. Now I have to admit that hen firing say a ray of enfeeblement at target like the Dwarf fighter in the back, you have a different calculation. From the Sorcerer's view the Dwarf has 90% cover while also firing through melee. Thus the touch AC of the dwarf might have a +6 to AC and a -4 to the attack. Even if he just misses the rules do not say it hits the cover. In the 2nd edition that cover would take the hit if close to hitting the AC, not so in 3.5. So I understand some of the consternation in this discussion but the actual arrow slit is used to explain of putting a spell through a tight place.One other scenario we had is this. The party entered a chamber and came onto fight some Derro with 2 ogres. The darkness spells fell all over the cavern right away. The Ranger and Dwarf waded into the darkness to take care of the Ogres even though Derro were coming up from all sides. Despite the Darkness spells the wizard asked to throw a max empowered Fireball about 20' behind the where the ogres stood, to scorch them and any upcoming reinforcements. I said that you had one round to see the cavern and it had both stalactites and stalagmites along with the creatures. It had a low uneven ceiling from 10 -12 feet high so you run the risk of hitting another creature in the darkness. They said we can see shadowy creatures (another thread I started on darkness sought to clarify what they can really see) and said as an expert he could easily remember and place it where he wanted. Without metagaming he had to go through one Ogre, the Ranger and 2 more Derro before it hit the square. Again t me he has a chance maybe not automatic to hit one of those creatures but a chance that he can't control. If I understand darkness spell better it may help but that is in the other thread. f course this was in an Underdark cavern which means it went from pitch black to shadowy illumination, just like the Derro like!</blockquote>

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