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<blockquote data-quote="kigmatzomat" data-source="post: 626589" data-attributes="member: 9254">I'm not sure how the Loremaster can be such a &quot;gimme&quot; for a sorceror.&nbsp; By my take, they have to be 17th level to qualify based on the two knowledges at rank 10.&nbsp; Even assuming one is Arcana, they'll have blown 3/4th their base skill points (30 out of 40) on these two skills alone. Furthermore, IIRC, in the Epic levels you don't qualify for any epic class feats until you get Sorceror&gt; 20 or Loremaster &gt;10.&nbsp; Which is better: Loremaster secrets every other&nbsp; level or Epic feats every third?&nbsp; Hard choice, that.&nbsp; It is easier for a cleric since they can use Knowledge Arcana and Religion as their two pre-reqs.&nbsp; But then they trade d8 hp for d4, lose turning ability, and get a crappy BAB.&nbsp; The fact is that over 10 levels a wizard only loses 2 metafeats and the familiar advancement.&nbsp; He gains bardic lore, two useful innate spells (with expensive material components/foci!), two languages, two points of Will save, and 5 specials (each equivalent to about half a feat).&nbsp; &nbsp; Net gain is very high and the entry level is the lowest possible: 7th level.&nbsp; They only need to spend 2 character-level&nbsp; feats as scribe scroll and the 5th level wizard feat count as prereqs.&nbsp; Unless I did something stupid on the skill points, Loremaster was destined for wizards.&nbsp; Now apologize to Monte Cook.&nbsp; <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile&nbsp; &nbsp; :)"&nbsp; data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /></blockquote>

[QUOTE="kigmatzomat, post: 626589, member: 9254"] I'm not sure how the Loremaster can be such a "gimme" for a sorceror. By my take, they have to be 17th level to qualify based on the two knowledges at rank 10. Even assuming one is Arcana, they'll have blown 3/4th their base skill points (30 out of 40) on these two skills alone. Furthermore, IIRC, in the Epic levels you don't qualify for any epic class feats until you get Sorceror> 20 or Loremaster >10. Which is better: Loremaster secrets every other level or Epic feats every third? Hard choice, that. It is easier for a cleric since they can use Knowledge Arcana and Religion as their two pre-reqs. But then they trade d8 hp for d4, lose turning ability, and get a crappy BAB. The fact is that over 10 levels a wizard only loses 2 metafeats and the familiar advancement. He gains bardic lore, two useful innate spells (with expensive material components/foci!), two languages, two points of Will save, and 5 specials (each equivalent to about half a feat). Net gain is very high and the entry level is the lowest possible: 7th level. They only need to spend 2 character-level feats as scribe scroll and the 5th level wizard feat count as prereqs. Unless I did something stupid on the skill points, Loremaster was destined for wizards. Now apologize to Monte Cook. :) [/QUOTE]

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