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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Dualazi" data-source="post: 7139607" data-attributes="member: 6855537">That’s not even remotely true though. That party composition has really strong damage, and that’s about it. A large portion of the issues people have with comparing the fighter to wizard isn’t about DPR discussions, it’s about how fighter only shines in combat, whereas the wizard is still very valuable in combat and also able to contribute heavily elsewhere.What…is your reasoning for this assertion? An 8th level wizard has 12 spells slots per day before even factoring in Arcane Recovery, so that’s between 1.5-2 spells per encounter, assuming the usual 6-8 encounters spiel. Spells are not something you really have to hoard as a caster class in 5e, much less wizards.In your campaign, in your setting perhaps. This is in no way the default assumption of the game though, or else I just missed the section on wizard-specific social penalties. This also brings up a point central to the theme of this thread; it’s not very hard for a wizard to curate a list of spells that give them a lot of advantages in social setting that fighters have no means of replicating.Right. It’s a role-playing game where the roles are ill-defined, to the detriment of balance. Because at the end of the day, fighter is a class, not a role, and their role more often than not (as highlighted by this thread) is that of a damage dealer. However, many of the magical classes, including full casters, are no slouches at dealing hits even if they don’t reach the heights of an optimized fighter. This leads to a problem where said classes are capable enough in combat and over-capable by comparison outside of combat.If 5e had really embraced the idea of the three pillars of play they espoused early in the design phase, then you should realistically have a class that’s garbage in combat and amazing at exploration and social skills, but this hypothetical class doesn’t exist because there’s no class that can’t contribute meaningfully in combat. The same can’t be said for social and exploration tasks.The real issue here is skills, in my opinion. They need to be a lot more robust in what they accomplish, and need to really have some system for ascertaining when the player has moved well beyond what normal humans can attain. I’d be a lot less peeved about caster toys if the fighter could pull off superhuman feats of endurance or strength and leverage those in different ways over a campaign.</blockquote>

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