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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Dualazi" data-source="post: 7139923" data-attributes="member: 6855537">Any that are second level or above. Web, Counterspell, Hold person, hypnotic pattern, fireball, haste... the list goes on. This is doubly true for CC spells, since non-legendary monsters have a hard time keeping their saves up to snuff with the caster's DCs. How on earth are you arriving at this conclusion? First off, you don't get a second AS until level 17, so you're assuming 2 short rests per day. Second, only the battlemaster has other short-rest recharge abilities, with the champion of course being nothing but static buffs and the EK having no way of regaining spent spells, with a very slow slot progression. Continuing on my "level 8" example, they would have 6 spells over the course of the day. Third, even with GWM, you're not going to be reliably one-shotting anything CR 1 or above, so assuming the extra attack from GWM is largely in error. Plus, this is actually the wizard's strong suit; clearing minions with a single AoE spell.Given this, i can only assume you're talking about the battlemaster, which yeah, can pump out damage, but none of the maneuvers he possesses even come close to the power of even second level spells. His 'showing off' is limited to combat (still), not as impactful as spells are, and is one of 3 official subclasses and doesn't speak for fighters as a whole.Bonus points: If we're going off your assumption of 2 short rests, the wizard in question has 8 addition spell slot levels to spread as they wish, so the initial estimate of 1.5-2x encounter/spells would actually be even higher....and so do the wizards. Nothing stops the wizard from also taking actor and social skills and still being better. This is because the basic chassis of the wizard allows them to specialize in all areas of the game and the fighter's do not. The wizard can also change his specialization on a day-to-day basis.And the wizard can put his feats toward something useful while coasting on charm person, alter self, and suggestion, to name a few. There's not really a response to this other than "it varies by campaign". That can be the case, but many negotiations still come down to the die roll, and I've had many campaigns where the group never returns to a given location and doesn't really care about charming the gate guard to get in.Er, are we back to combat again, or are we still discussing the social sphere?Or, you know, the DM doesn't. In the campaign I currently run travel time and hazards are definitely taken into account and speed is definitely advantageous. I mean, with your method you've basically houseruled the teleport spells out of the game by other means, since you assume the distance element of the adventure is going to be hand-waved or otherwise resolved without expenditure of party resources.This is just the oberoni fallacy in full force, assuming that the DM will fix all the problems inherent in the system to get on with the run. Why would the wizard in this equation even bother learning or preparing said spell? He can just sit on his hands and the DM will ferry them to their destination anyway. So, I guess I agree with you in some sense, if the DM simply removes all the non-combat elements of the game then fighters and wizards are pretty equally impactful. In any campaign where the DM doesn't do this, this is not the case.I'd like to make it clear though, that while I am disgruntled with this imbalance between the two, 5e has done a much better job curtailing it than prior editions, so hopefully that trend continues whenever 6e hits way down the line.</blockquote>

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