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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Imaro" data-source="post: 7140213" data-attributes="member: 48965">What was the casters initiative because the only way I can see this happening is if he caught the fighter offguard...To cast 9th level spells a wizard has to be at least 17th level and most spell casters at that level can't survive a single round of attacks by a 17th level fighter using action surge and all of his attacks per round (especially if the first spell he casts is an attack) .  On a failed save meteor swarm on average does 70 pnts of damage... 35 on a successful save (which more than likely a Dex fighter is going to make without any resource expenditure, but even a Str fighter can spend Indomitable to pretty much guarantee he succeeds on that first save)Now a fighter at 17th level with a 14 Con (though it would probably be higher) has 148 hit points... that spell is going to be little more than a scratch since he will more than likely make his save...A fighter using Action surge twice at 17th level with an 20 in Str using a Greatsword (No feats, no BM dice, etc.) does on average 108 points of damage... 2d6+5 with 3 attacks +Action Surge (3 more attacks) +Action Surge (3 more attacks)...  We also seem to miss the fact that the fighter can spread these attacks out over numerous foes that he can reach within his movement if he wants so it's not just single target damage...  So I'll ask how is this wizard not getting outright murdered in the first round of combat once we throw feats and things like BM dice in the mix if he goes up against a fighter?I'm interested in why your experiences are so different from mine...it's been running wizards as a DM that's made me realize that without some kind of advantage outside their own abilities (followers, ambushes, terrain, preparation, etc.) fighters will pretty much dominate a wizard easily in combat, even when they are a lower level.  My solution has been to try to make sure my spell casters have one or more of these advantages but that doesn't exactly speak to a wizards combat prowess.</blockquote>

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