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<blockquote data-quote="Tony Vargas" data-source="post: 7141552" data-attributes="member: 996">It wasn't a functional system, at first, but it was fixed fairly quickly, so it certainly 'worked' at some point.&nbsp; With only a few years of to develop, though, it had a long way to go to catch up with the depth of D&amp;D combat &amp; magic.&nbsp; 5e could take up and further develop something along those lines.&nbsp;Of course not.&nbsp;&nbsp; Sure.&nbsp; I think the contention is that 'very little benefit' is still 'contributing' and therefor nothing to complain about.So, the hypothetical caster who couldn't know combat spells and got by contributing in in combat via inferior weapon attacks, the Help action, and improvisation&nbsp; would, likewise, have no more to complain about than the non-hypothetical fighter.&nbsp;Or 1/16th or whatever... They hypothetical combat-incompetent caster couldn't attack 4 times in a round with a greatsword, either, but he can make his contribution of 'very little benefit' with his staff or dagger 1/round.&nbsp; So, sure, a single spell might solve a social or exploration challenge at one go, that doesn't mean the fighter had no contribution to make with his +1 survival or +4 intimidate or -1 diplomacy whatever, just that it wasn't called for in that instance.&nbsp;There's no reason a fighter couldn't be quite decent with a few skills by investing in the right feats.&nbsp; It wouldn't have the level of skill possible with those as with expertise nor the flexiblity and single-spell-solutions of a caster, but it'd be a more-than-very-little-benefit contribution when those specific skills or feats applied.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Tony Vargas, post: 7141552, member: 996"] It wasn't a functional system, at first, but it was fixed fairly quickly, so it certainly 'worked' at some point. With only a few years of to develop, though, it had a long way to go to catch up with the depth of D&D combat & magic. 5e could take up and further develop something along those lines. Of course not. Sure. I think the contention is that 'very little benefit' is still 'contributing' and therefor nothing to complain about. So, the hypothetical caster who couldn't know combat spells and got by contributing in in combat via inferior weapon attacks, the Help action, and improvisation would, likewise, have no more to complain about than the non-hypothetical fighter. Or 1/16th or whatever... They hypothetical combat-incompetent caster couldn't attack 4 times in a round with a greatsword, either, but he can make his contribution of 'very little benefit' with his staff or dagger 1/round. So, sure, a single spell might solve a social or exploration challenge at one go, that doesn't mean the fighter had no contribution to make with his +1 survival or +4 intimidate or -1 diplomacy whatever, just that it wasn't called for in that instance. There's no reason a fighter couldn't be quite decent with a few skills by investing in the right feats. It wouldn't have the level of skill possible with those as with expertise nor the flexiblity and single-spell-solutions of a caster, but it'd be a more-than-very-little-benefit contribution when those specific skills or feats applied. [/QUOTE]

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