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Spellcasters, Non-Casters, Skills, and Ability Scores
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<blockquote data-quote="Xeviat" data-source="post: 7623081" data-attributes="member: 57494"><p>Hi everyone.</p><p></p><p>I care a great deal about game balance. I know the only game that can be "perfectly" balanced would be a game where all players have the same options, but an RPG like D&D can be balanced in it's choices. No choice should stand up as better than others. In 3E, this was really hard to comeby, and classes like the Fighter languished in suboptimal hell when your friendly Druid came alongside with a bear who was better than you (being a little hyperbolic, but not much). 4E got closer to balance, but with the drawback of feeling "samey" and "not like D&D". 5E has gotten close, at least close enough that I can't think of character concepts I strictly wouldn't play because they were too weak, or options I feel I'd outright ban because they're too strong (okay, maybe I wouldn't play a TWFing Fighter without a custom subclass that made it good past 4th level).</p><p></p><p>So what am I here to discuss today? The title does have a lot in it. I wanted to talk about expanding 5E's skill system a bit more. I miss 3E's skill system. I don't miss skill points, because a skill not maxed really didn't feel like a skill worth having. What I miss is having a lot of guidance on what skills can do. In another discussion about feats recently, I realized how many of the skill feat options really feel like things those skills should already be able to do. I'm not even going to list them; most I think should be skill checks. This could free up feats to balanced around largely being combat things, which would make it a lot easier to balance them.</p><p></p><p>Where do spellcasters come in? Well, in my thought of expanding the skill system, I wanted to put in some new skill requirements on spellcasters to make it so they benefit less from an expanded skill system. If skills are expanded without limiting casters some how, then such an expansion doesn't really help empower non-casters. If casters have all the same toys, what makes the non-casters special? What do I mean by this? Well, if spellcasters needed a knowledge skill (Arcana, Nature, Religion), and perhaps something else (3E had spellcraft and concentration, though I'm not entirely sure we want to go back down that rabbit hole), then a portion of their skill budget would get tied up in those, limiting the other skills they could get.</p><p></p><p>Where do ability scores come in? I've been thinking a lot about having Int grant skills, languages, or tool proficiencies, as part of an effort to rebalance the non +attack/dc/damage portion of the ability scores (Dex and Con are too valuable for everyone, Wis probably leads the way in mentals because of it's saves and perception). Int often feels easily dumped, so having it give skills might make others pick it up again (but that would also expand a wizard's skill options, devaluing what I just said earlier; we could always give the wizard no skills and just make them go off their int and background, lol).</p><p></p><p>Mostly just musing here. If characters could use their skills to do extraordinary things, and eventually heroic, epic things, I think they could feel a lot more closer to casters in full utility. In a low combat game, a spellcaster can use their spells for utility things, greatly contributing to social and exploration challenges. Give the non-casters more toys to play with here too.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Xeviat, post: 7623081, member: 57494"] Hi everyone. I care a great deal about game balance. I know the only game that can be "perfectly" balanced would be a game where all players have the same options, but an RPG like D&D can be balanced in it's choices. No choice should stand up as better than others. In 3E, this was really hard to comeby, and classes like the Fighter languished in suboptimal hell when your friendly Druid came alongside with a bear who was better than you (being a little hyperbolic, but not much). 4E got closer to balance, but with the drawback of feeling "samey" and "not like D&D". 5E has gotten close, at least close enough that I can't think of character concepts I strictly wouldn't play because they were too weak, or options I feel I'd outright ban because they're too strong (okay, maybe I wouldn't play a TWFing Fighter without a custom subclass that made it good past 4th level). So what am I here to discuss today? The title does have a lot in it. I wanted to talk about expanding 5E's skill system a bit more. I miss 3E's skill system. I don't miss skill points, because a skill not maxed really didn't feel like a skill worth having. What I miss is having a lot of guidance on what skills can do. In another discussion about feats recently, I realized how many of the skill feat options really feel like things those skills should already be able to do. I'm not even going to list them; most I think should be skill checks. This could free up feats to balanced around largely being combat things, which would make it a lot easier to balance them. Where do spellcasters come in? Well, in my thought of expanding the skill system, I wanted to put in some new skill requirements on spellcasters to make it so they benefit less from an expanded skill system. If skills are expanded without limiting casters some how, then such an expansion doesn't really help empower non-casters. If casters have all the same toys, what makes the non-casters special? What do I mean by this? Well, if spellcasters needed a knowledge skill (Arcana, Nature, Religion), and perhaps something else (3E had spellcraft and concentration, though I'm not entirely sure we want to go back down that rabbit hole), then a portion of their skill budget would get tied up in those, limiting the other skills they could get. Where do ability scores come in? I've been thinking a lot about having Int grant skills, languages, or tool proficiencies, as part of an effort to rebalance the non +attack/dc/damage portion of the ability scores (Dex and Con are too valuable for everyone, Wis probably leads the way in mentals because of it's saves and perception). Int often feels easily dumped, so having it give skills might make others pick it up again (but that would also expand a wizard's skill options, devaluing what I just said earlier; we could always give the wizard no skills and just make them go off their int and background, lol). Mostly just musing here. If characters could use their skills to do extraordinary things, and eventually heroic, epic things, I think they could feel a lot more closer to casters in full utility. In a low combat game, a spellcaster can use their spells for utility things, greatly contributing to social and exploration challenges. Give the non-casters more toys to play with here too. [/QUOTE]
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