Spellcasting Monsters

[Tratyn Runewind]

Hello,

I have a couple of questions concerning monsters with the "Spells" special ability...

The Monster Manual v.3.5 entry for the Rakshasa states that if a Rakshasa gains levels of the Sorcerer class, they stack with its seven innate levels of Sorcerer spellcasting - a 3rd-level Rakshasa Sorcerer knows and casts spells as a 10th-level Sorcerer.

First question: is this the general rule for monsters with the "Spells" special ability who gain levels of the same class they cast their innate spells in? I haven't seen the question dealt with anywhere else in the rules or FAQs, though the approach used with the Rakshasa seems to make a lot of sense. If an Aranea gains levels in Sorcerer, or a Nymph gains levels in Druid, do these stack with those races' innate spellcasting as they do for Rakshasas?

Also, the Rakshasa's entry states that its Sorcerer levels from its "Spells" special ability stack with its actual levels of the Sorcerer class for purposes of calculating the Rakshasa's familiar's special abilities. This is despite the note in the "Spells" special ability description in the back of the Monster Manual stating that "A spellcasting creature is not a member of a class unless its entry says so, and it does not gain any class abilities. For example, a creature that casts arcane spells as a sorcerer cannot acquire a familiar."

So a baseline Rakshasa can't have a familiar at all, but a Rakshasa with three levels in Sorcerer has a familiar with the abilities of a 10th-level Sorcerer's familiar. Second question: is this rule a general rule for other class features for monsters with the "Spells" ability who gain levels in the same class they use to cast their innate spells? A baseline Nymph, with the "Spells" special ability as a 7th-level Druid, can't Wild Shape at all. If that Nymph gains seven levels in the Druid class, does she Wild Shape as a 14th-level Druid?

Can anyone point me to some answers in the rules or FAQs for these questions? Thanks in advance...

 

[Caliban]

Hello,

I have a couple of questions concerning monsters with the "Spells" special ability...

First question: is this the general rule for monsters with the "Spells" special ability who gain levels of the same class they cast their innate spells in?

Yes. You can't multiclass in the same class, so if you have spellcasting levels for one class, they would stack if you take any actual levels in that class.

I haven't seen the question dealt with anywhere else in the rules or FAQs, though the approach used with the Rakshasa seems to make a lot of sense. If an Aranea gains levels in Sorcerer, or a Nymph gains levels in Druid, do these stack with those races' innate spellcasting as they do for Rakshasas?

Yes. It works the same for dragons too.

Also, the Rakshasa's entry states that its Sorcerer levels from its "Spells" special ability stack with its actual levels of the Sorcerer class for purposes of calculating the Rakshasa's familiar's special abilities. This is despite the note in the "Spells" special ability description in the back of the Monster Manual stating that "A spellcasting creature is not a member of a class unless its entry says so, and it does not gain any class abilities. For example, a creature that casts arcane spells as a sorcerer cannot acquire a familiar."

This seems to be unique to the Rakshasa. I know dragons innate caster level doesn't help with a familiar if they gain one.

 

[Nightfall]

I think that last one is more dependent on creature in question, aka Rashaka's familiar advancement, than anything else. But Caliy is right. I know of several instances where adding to something that already has spellcasting of a type (sorcerer/wizard/druid etc) increases that spellcaster level along with spells per day. The class abilities though don't increase unless they already stack. So say you have a demon that casts spells a cleric of 10th level. Adding 5 levels causes him to cast as a 15th level cleric BUT he only has the turning ability of a cleric of 5th level.

 

[Hypersmurf]

I think the general rule about Caster Level stacking is in Savage Species somewhere, isn't it?

Edit - Ah, here we go... it's in the 3.5 SRD under "Improving Monsters":

Associated Class Levels
Class levels that increase a monster’s existing strengths are known as associated class levels. Each associated class level a monster has increases its CR by 1.

Barbarian, fighter, paladin, and ranger are associated classes for a creature that relies on its fighting ability.

Rogue and ranger are associated classes for a creature that relies on stealth to surprise its foes, or on skill use to give itself an advantage.

A spellcasting class is an associated class for a creature that already has the ability to cast spells as a character of the class in question, since the monster’s levels in the spellcasting class stack with its innate spellcasting ability.

-Hyp.

 

[Nightfall]

Thanks for the support HS.

 

[Tratyn Runewind]

Hi again,

Thanks aplenty, folks. Gotta love the helpful crowd at the ENboards!

Hypersmurf, after reading your post I took another look at the 3.5E Monster Manual. Sure enough, the passage you quoted from the SRD is there, on page 294. I missed it in my previous examinations of the book because it is found in the section on monster CR calculation, rather than those on adding class levels to a monster or on the "Spells" special ability.

Responses concerning the second question are a bit less solid so far - but at least it's nice to know I don't seem to have overlooked any definitive rules statements, as I did for the first question.

So, that's one question down with a definite answer! Anyone with anything more to add on the second one, feel free to chime in...

And thanks again, everyone!

 

[Nightfall]

While I have no DEFINITIVE proof, I don't believe that class abilities STACK with with spellcasting. If that were the case, Heirophants and other Pr-classes that grant +1 spell casting or increase caster level effects would have things like that. So I'd say no, a Nymph that gains 7 levels still only wildshapes as a 7th level druid. Because that is the differents between SPELLS and class abilities.

 

[Hypersmurf]

So I'd say no, a Nymph that gains 7 levels still only wildshapes as a 7th level druid.

I'm glad they fixed Nymphs in 3.5.

As far as I can figure, by the rules in 3E, Nymphs could cast Elemental Swarm or Finger of Death at will.

-Hyp.

 

[Nightfall]

Obviously our SL nymphs and your D&D nymphs must have had different things in mind.