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Message: <blockquote data-quote="jasamcarl" data-source="post: 138758" data-attributes="member: 1251">Ok, ONE last response...The drawback to this prc is essentially one feet for the benefits you yourself listed. Now that doesn't sound like an even trade, until you see that the balance was in the placement of along the 1-20 lvl section. My argument is that the key balancing factor for this prestige class is the +7BAB. How worthwhile is Lay on Hands at level 8? And Smite at 12th? Not very unless you have a high Cha, which under most circumstances entails a tradeoff in other stats, each one of which is preferable to Charisma. So we have a couple of meagre abilities which are made only barely potent by sacraficing an even greater amount of hp, damage cap, skills, etc... It doesn't help that the other variable that plays into their effect is class level, in a 5 level class.Now the two benefits which are actually worth attention, i.e. the +3 ref and +2 saves to divine effects. The latter is heavily dependent upon DM fiat, but still a reasonable advantage given the number of divine effects you could find in the MM. Clear advantages on both ends. So how does the loss of one combat feat balance this?Well lets look at what the confindent young min/max fighter would do as he is ascending the early levels. Most fighters find a hook, a niche. This involves investment in a feat chain. Now here is the subtle part. Most feat chains provide abilties which compliment each other, allowing for a rapid rise of tactical versatility for the fighter up until that chain is exhausted. Now it just so happens that most of the logical feat paths top out around level 8. how about that? <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /> This is the point where independent feats that compliment any given chain comes in. These include Improved Initiative and... Weapon Specialization!! <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /> Warchild, your comparison of the two above mentioned abilities to combat reflexes and the save boosters isn't very telling, because AT THIS LEVEL those feats are very weak. Weapon Spec, on the other hand, allows any oppurtunities offered by their feat chains to have a much larger payoff, sometimes allowing for near exponentialy higher damage over a given period of combat. Now of course a fighter could take weapon specialization at an earlier level, but that would require he commit two feats, weapon spec AND focus, both of which would have been better spend on any number of feats such as dodge, cleave, spirited charge, etc.. As the fighter enters the Divine Champion, he would very likely be struggling to complete that chain. As it is, he would at the very least have weapon focus, which is weak at this level range, just hanging their with not option to complete the logical prog to Weapon Spec. He who takes this class has to make another choice conscerning Improved Critical..Either way the feat situation is less than optimal.And this is what it comes down. A +3 to the Relex save or +2 to divine effects are useful in a number of situations, but is it comparable to the constant combat use of a fighter feat prog, especially given the latter is very much active, often reducing the capabilities of the opposition even as it provides defense for the fighter? Now are all the Divine Champion's advantages worth this? Probably, but again you are overstating your case...This class is actually expertly balanced, and i thank you for pointing it out...i admire Wotc r&d more and more <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /></blockquote>

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