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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Big Mac" data-source="post: 4295789" data-attributes="member: 61182">I prefer the Beyond the Moons change to Tactical Raiting (TR) as it avoids confusion with Spell Resistance.One thing people often forget about is that TR only comes into play during wildspace combat or manouvering (take off, landing and docking). Most of the time spelljamming ships all travel at "spelljammer speed" and the type of helm and type of helmsman is unimportant.To me it feels like tactical movement is what a ship can do when something with enough tonnage is nearby and slowing it down.So I think your 4th edition "at wills" could empower "spelljammer speed" (and still be available if a spellcaster got off of the helm).Conventional spells would be needed to manouver at tactical speed. I would probably suggest that they are all sucked into the major/minor helm as per 2nd edition SJ.But there is another side to the jamming of Spelljammer and that is the time a helmsman can sit on the helm without passing out from exaustion*. I'd be inclined to allow helmsman to do things (that were illegal under 2nd edition rules) in exchange for time on the helm.* = A helmsman could spelljam normally for 12 hours. After this time they could spelljam at -1 TR per additional hour (up to a maximum of 24 hours). A helmsman who actually stayed on the helm for 24 hours passed out from exaustion.2nd edition rules had a way of dealing with people who had cast spells before getting onto a SJ helm:Here is the 2nd edition rules from page 18 of CoAS:"A spellcaster who has cast any of his...spells before activating the helm loses one spelljamming raiting for each spell cast (minimum SR of 1)."That could be changed to a rule that says something like:"A spellcaster who has cast any of his spells before activating the helm loses one point of tactical raiting for each spell cast (minimum TR of 1). A spellcaster can continue to cast spells after the helm, but continues to lose one point of tactical raiting per spell cast."This means that a spellcaster could cast spells and spelljam, but they couldn't spelljam at high TRs and they couldn't spelljam for longer than 12 hours if they burned up so many spells they only had 1 TR left.I think this sort of mechanic could work, but it still leaves this second rule to be dealt with:"Using a major or minor helm...removes all spellcasting ability until the individual rests long enough to regain spells."That could be changed to a rule that says something like:"Using a major or minor helm links the spellcaster to the helm until the individual rests long enough to regain spells and requires the spellcaster to make a concentration check in order to be able to cast spells, with a failure indicating that the spell is absorbed by the helm."An easy way to do it, would be to relate the DC to the spell level.Then you could just stick in a set of DC adjustments that deal with specific circumstances. Maybe something like this:Overcoming link to minor helm: +15 Overcoming link to major helm: +20 Casting while still spelljamming: +10 Casting while moving at tactical speed**: +1 per TR ** = This stacks with the +10 of casting while spelljamming.This wouldn't be perfect, as there are some spells that you shouldn't be able to cast while sitting in a chair, but it could be the basis of a system that allows helmsmen to carry on casting spells.So the spellcasting side of things can be sorted out with something like that. You don't need to remove the spirit of the original SJ rules to use Spelljammer. It just needs a few small tweaks. (Tweaks that could work as house rules in 2nd edition AD&D or in 3rd edition D&D.)A system like that is still Spelljammer. A system where you totally ignore the original rules (instead of adapting them) is no different from givnig your players a giant magic carpet. I think that spellcasters need to loose something to make up for what they gain. It has to be a trade in of one ability for another ability.-----------------------------On a second note, I think that SJ could benifit from spellcasters being able to use the helm for spellcasting. I know I just proposed a bunch of rules to make that harder, but I think that the weapon on the Hummingbird from Crystal Spheres (which turns magic missiles spells into a ship damaging missile) should be something that is more common in SJ.Spelljammer already set a link that makes a helmsman "feel" the damage to their ship. There should be a feat (or some other sort of rule) that allows a spellcaster to treat the entire ship as if it is their body. This would allow a spellcaster to cast a bless spell that had a range based on the ship's hull or give their ship Mage Armor.I also like the idea of the helmsman of an opposing ship turning that ship into a creature (for the purpose of certain spells).This sort of thing wouldn't be easy, as it would require a review of every spell to decide if they could be used while on the helm (and if they could affect opposing helmsmen). But it would put the "spell" into spelljammer combat. It could make spellcasters eager to get onto the helm, so that they could blast away at an enemy ship or cause its helmsman to suffer spelljammer shock and pass out.With a bit of careful wording (and playtesting) you could have a new version of Spelljammer, where a helmsman's ship drops to tactical speed and he has to decide if he wants to use all of his TR to try to run away, or use his ship to zap the other helmsman with a magic missile (and suffer a TR penalty for the rest of the day).Spellcasters would be free to cast spells while on the helm, but would loose the ability to create speed bursts that might get their ship out of trouble.Rules like that would give freedom to cast spells back to the player, but would make them think very carefully about any spell they wanted to cast.</blockquote>

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