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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Janos Audron" data-source="post: 1054116" data-attributes="member: 4649">"I dont believe your spellblade dispel magic immunity works. The description of spellblade states "The chosen spell must be one that is targetted against the wielder (not a spell that affects an area)." Emphasis is mine, but clearly since Dispel and Greater Dispel can affect an area, they cannot be used in this manner. If I could memorize a specific dispel magic that targetted someone your plan would have more credence, but I choose which type of Dispel Magic I want upon casting, hence it does not fulfill the requirement for Spellblade."An interesting view, however Dispel Magic is either targetted or area (and Logic learns us that it is thus a targetted spell (true or false = true) <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f61b.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":p" title="Stick out tongue    :p"  data-smilie="7"data-shortname=":p" />), as is Flame Arrow. So, if you think Flame Arrow should not be stopped by spellblade, I guess we disagree on this..."So Spellpower is still very good as a bonus to dispel others' spells, and make your own harder."Agreed."Spellpower is still good as a 'lite' Spell Penetration."True."Spellpower is very very good at lower levels, and still useful at higher levels (though only for a smaller range of spells)."Yes, and that was one of the points of my argument. The higher level you become, the 'more useless' it becomes. What about an Epic Red Wizard, who only (yeah, and a whole *two* bonus feats) gets Spellpower (though up to +10). This does not really make the situation better, IMO."Exampls which do not include the gooies from above: *snip*"I agree with the examples, but as I said, it is a *temporary* benefit."Personally I think Spell Power holds up fine. I think Create Magic Tattoo needs a tiny bit of erratta, perhaps 10 exp for the weak tattoo 30 for the medium one, and 50 for the excellent ones. This would be to dissuade making this an auto-buffer everyday (+2 competence to attacks is pretty fly, and thats only a DC 15)."That is a harsh suggestion (but the way the rest of the second level buffs got nerfed, it seems like they might do something like that)... This does indeed fix the problem (150 XP/day for +3 Clvl isn't usually worth it...), though I don't think I would *like* the change."Of course where does our Red Wizard stand at level 20 (with Spell Power +5)? Well, the regular wizard (or even a wizard with a prc) seems behind, here are some benefits to the various schools:Abjuration: More Difficult to Dispel Defenses. Better Banishments/Dismissals. Hardier Permanencies."Yep, though I really have to ask myself: "Is that worth banning a *third* school?" "Conjuartion: More Bang for your Gate (5 more HD). Regular wizards Gate in Balors, I gate in 25 HD Balors (vs 20) or 5th level Barbarian Balors. Summons last longer, which isn't usually useful. All the 'Binding' Spells have a better chance of succeeding (harder Charisma Checks or better bonus against their SR)."I think this is actually useful."Enchantment: Better Bindings. 10 more hours on Antipathy. Ok, not so great for Enchantment either, but all the above still applies."Well, I don't know about binding, but personally I'm more of a Kill and Soul Bind kinda person... Personally, I would say an Enchanter gets no benifit."Evoker: Polar Ray is maxed. All the higher level bigby's have +5 attack bonus. Additionally I could see a Red Wizard researching some higher level Evocations with larger caps."Ok, quite useful."Illusion: Long Lasting Illusions. Difficult to Dispel Illusions. Admittedly, Spell Power is not too great for illusions after level 20, but up until level 20 it was probably of great benefit."Sure, but that means Spellpower was a short term benifit, which is wrong for a PrC ability..."Necromancy: More Undead to Control (10 HD more). Slightly Better Symbols of Death! (Joke). 5 more deaths to the Wail of Banshee. Not so great for Necromancers, except with regards to Undead."Well, you can control more CR 11 (max) undead! Congratulations, you are able to scare the people in *names random hamlet*. Undead are great at low levels, when you face weak foes (Nec 4, Skeleton and Zombie killed 5 kobols), but at higher levels, they are toast (literally). Would you mind if I said there is no real benefit for Necromancers?"Transmuters: Bigger Shapechange options (50 HD vs 40 HD), plus all the goodies you've had since before level 20."Oh yes! This is great for Transmuters. This is the biggest benefit I see for any Red Wizard.So, what about Diviners? I guess it still sucks for them. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f61b.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":p" title="Stick out tongue    :p"  data-smilie="7"data-shortname=":p" />"Ok, so granted there is usually only 1 more thing these Red Wizards get for beyond level 20 status with Spell Power +5. But that is probably the smallest slice of the pie when it comes to actual playing time, and when you start getting into epic levels caster level becomes important again. Caster level is also important to Circle Magic in general, and aids Item Creation."Oh boy, did you mess up your argument here <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />. Circle Magic is the most overpowered ability in the game. But if you are allowed to use it, the whole Spellpower benefit flies right out of the window. "Hey, I've got caster level 30, which is enough to make all my spells un-Dispellable." True, you can save X spell levels because you have Spellpower +X, but what do you get? Two Empower Spells, a Maximize Spell and a Heighten Spell. So, when you use Circle Magic you get a shocking 3 Metamagic feats for your (primary?) class ability. Further, if you use "Level is requirement for magic items", then yes, Spellpower is useful. We don't, so then it is only useful for Transmuters (who can make a +4 or a +5 earlier than non-Red Wizards)."Is it a big booming bonus? No, not really, and you may have to be a little creative to get use out of it (if you want a lot of use). Otherwise its a nice solid bonus. Obviously there are some fun games you can play, with a 15th level red wizard (with a caster level of 20) who goes and picks up 5 other levels (perhaps 3 with spellcasting +1). Now he casts as a 23rd level caster, and can cast 9th level spells, but probably has some interesting abilities from those 2 levels where no spellcasting was gained."It's a nice short term bonus, worth it if you *do not allow Circle Magic*. Your arguments have shown me that Spellpower isn't really as bad as I thought it was, however, I still do not think it is a good ability...And let's stop using Circle Magic, since that just about makes Spell Power obsolete...</blockquote>

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