Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Spellprepared/known for multiclassed spellcaster
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Pauper" data-source="post: 6679533" data-attributes="member: 17607"><p>The rules are pretty clear, I agree, but you're the one who seems to be ignoring them. In order to support the argument that a Wizard19/Cleric1 can only prepare 1st level cleric spells, you need to argue that the phrase in the multiclassing rules that says that you prepare spells as a single-classed spellcaster also says you determine what spell slots you possess as a single-classed spellcaster. The problem is that the multiclassing rules don't say that -- there's an entire paragraph on how you determine what caster level you are for determining your character's spell slots, and it makes no distinction between your classes -- the rules even explicitly state that you can cast spells from any of your Spellcasting classes with the slots you gain from the Multiclassing Spell Slot chart.</p><p></p><p>In other words, if you are a multiclass caster, you determine your character's spell slots from the Multiclass Spell Slot chart; those are the spell slots your character has. You don't have a subset or different number of those slots only to determine what spells you can prepare -- those are your spell slots.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Actually, someone can, since I play a cleric/wizard in Adventurer's League, and to this point, that's how the interaction has been ruled in Organized Play.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I'd suggest you try a Wizard19/Cleric1 compared with other multiclasses to see how 'broken' it is before just spouting off:</p><p></p><p>- Compared to a Cleric20, a Wizard19/Cleric 1 has no domains or domain abilities, which also means no free prepared spells from those domains. A mass heal from a Life Domain cleric will be far more effective than one from a Wizard/Cleric; similarly other cleric-specific spells will be more effective coming from an actual cleric.</p><p></p><p>- A Cleric19/Wizard1 can prepare 9th level wizard spells, but has the in-game requirement of actually finding 9th level spells on scrolls or in other spellbooks to copy into his own. (The wizard can copy any spell he can prepare, and he can prepare any spell for which he has spell slots -- so if the cleric can do it, so can the wizard.) This makes the Wizard19/Cleric1 nearly identical to the Cleric19/Wizard1, instead of making one vastly more powerful than the other.</p><p></p><p>- If your interpretation of the rule is correct, then a Wizard10/Cleric10 is one of the worst multi-class options you can take, since a Wizard is already restricted based on what spells he gets for free in his spellbook. (Unlike the rule on preparing spells, the rule for gaining free spells specifically lists the Wizard chart for determining what spell level of spell can be gained for free.) Under my interpretation, Wizard10/Cleric10 is of basically equivalent spellcasting ability to any other cleric/wizard multiclass, and the differences lie in which class abilities the character has access to.</p><p></p><p>An interpretation where one multi-class combo is vastly more powerful than the others is more 'broken', to my mind, than one where all multi-class combos are largely equivalent.</p><p></p><p>--</p><p>Pauper</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Pauper, post: 6679533, member: 17607"] The rules are pretty clear, I agree, but you're the one who seems to be ignoring them. In order to support the argument that a Wizard19/Cleric1 can only prepare 1st level cleric spells, you need to argue that the phrase in the multiclassing rules that says that you prepare spells as a single-classed spellcaster also says you determine what spell slots you possess as a single-classed spellcaster. The problem is that the multiclassing rules don't say that -- there's an entire paragraph on how you determine what caster level you are for determining your character's spell slots, and it makes no distinction between your classes -- the rules even explicitly state that you can cast spells from any of your Spellcasting classes with the slots you gain from the Multiclassing Spell Slot chart. In other words, if you are a multiclass caster, you determine your character's spell slots from the Multiclass Spell Slot chart; those are the spell slots your character has. You don't have a subset or different number of those slots only to determine what spells you can prepare -- those are your spell slots. Actually, someone can, since I play a cleric/wizard in Adventurer's League, and to this point, that's how the interaction has been ruled in Organized Play. I'd suggest you try a Wizard19/Cleric1 compared with other multiclasses to see how 'broken' it is before just spouting off: - Compared to a Cleric20, a Wizard19/Cleric 1 has no domains or domain abilities, which also means no free prepared spells from those domains. A mass heal from a Life Domain cleric will be far more effective than one from a Wizard/Cleric; similarly other cleric-specific spells will be more effective coming from an actual cleric. - A Cleric19/Wizard1 can prepare 9th level wizard spells, but has the in-game requirement of actually finding 9th level spells on scrolls or in other spellbooks to copy into his own. (The wizard can copy any spell he can prepare, and he can prepare any spell for which he has spell slots -- so if the cleric can do it, so can the wizard.) This makes the Wizard19/Cleric1 nearly identical to the Cleric19/Wizard1, instead of making one vastly more powerful than the other. - If your interpretation of the rule is correct, then a Wizard10/Cleric10 is one of the worst multi-class options you can take, since a Wizard is already restricted based on what spells he gets for free in his spellbook. (Unlike the rule on preparing spells, the rule for gaining free spells specifically lists the Wizard chart for determining what spell level of spell can be gained for free.) Under my interpretation, Wizard10/Cleric10 is of basically equivalent spellcasting ability to any other cleric/wizard multiclass, and the differences lie in which class abilities the character has access to. An interpretation where one multi-class combo is vastly more powerful than the others is more 'broken', to my mind, than one where all multi-class combos are largely equivalent. -- Pauper [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Spellprepared/known for multiclassed spellcaster
Top