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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Quickleaf" data-source="post: 8159212" data-attributes="member: 20323">When homebrewing a spellcasting monster, how can I account for spells that don't have an obvious and/or easily calculated contribution to defensive/offensive challenge in determining the monster's CR?While this question has come up for me before, I've usually been able to work through some maths (e.g. mirror image) or use a "good enough" rule-of-thumb / DM feel, but the current monster I've been working on has me scratching my head. None of her spells deal obvious damage and only one of her spells (shield of faith) contributes to obvious defense, but that's at the bottom of her spellcasting priorities considering she has much higher level spells.  Yet some of these spells have the potential to be game changers if cast at the right moment, and clearly a monster with these spells is more challenging than a monster without them.I've included the monster in spoilers (with DNDBeyond links to spells), if you'd like to engage with the example I'm working on -- a transcended succubus aka "lilitu" turned "high priestess" of Graz'zt. Her defensive CR is roughly 9, but I'm flummoxed on how to estimate an offensive CR. To make it easier, I've striked-through spells that have long casting times or which are clearly intended for social/exploration scenes (e.g. detect thoughts & sending).But feel free to use your own examples! Principles & troubleshooting specific spells are what I'm most interested in, and are what I imagine would be most helpful to other board members.[SPOILER=Lavendeth, the spellcasting monster with a perplexing CR]LAVENDETHMedium fiend (demon), chaotic evilArmor Class 16 (natural armor)Hit Points 117 (18d8+36)Speed 40 ftSTR 10 (+0) DEX 19 (+4) CON 15 (+2) INT 16 (+3) WIS 16 (+3) CHA 22 (+6)Saving Throws Con +?, Int +?, Wis +?, Cha +?Skills Deception +?, Insight +?, Intimidation +?, Perception +?, Persuasion +?, Religion +?, Stealth +?Damage Resistances cold, fire, lightning; bludgeoning, piercing, and slashing from nonmagical attacksDamage Immunities poisonCondition Immunities poisonedSenses darkvision 60 ft., passive Perception 11Languages All, telepathy 60 ft.Challenge ? (? XP)     Proficiency Bonus +?Innate Spellcasting. Lavendeth’s innate spellcasting ability is Charisma (spell save DC ?). She can innately cast the following spells, requiring no material components:At will: <a href="https://www.dndbeyond.com/spells/charm-monster" target="_blank">charm monster</a>, <a href="https://www.dndbeyond.com/spells/detect-thoughts" target="_blank">detect thoughts</a>, <a href="https://www.dndbeyond.com/spells/disguise-self" target="_blank">disguise self</a>, <a href="https://www.dndbeyond.com/spells/fly" target="_blank">fly</a>, <a href="https://www.dndbeyond.com/spells/suggestion" target="_blank">suggestion</a>1/day each: <a href="https://www.dndbeyond.com/spells/dominate-person" target="_blank">dominate person</a>, <a href="https://www.dndbeyond.com/spells/mass-suggestion" target="_blank">mass suggestion</a>Magic Resistance. Lavendeth has advantage on saving throws against spells and other magical effects. However, a cleric or paladin who recognizes her true nature bypasses her Magic Resistance.Shroud Presence. Lavendeth cannot be detected by abilities or spells that sense demons or fiends. Additionally, detect magic never reveals a magical aura from an illusion spell around her, even when she has cast disguise self.Spellcasting. Lavendeth is a 16th level spellcaster. Her spellcasting ability is Charisma (spell save DC ?). She has the following spells prepared:Cantrips (at will): <a href="https://www.dndbeyond.com/spells/guidance" target="_blank">guidance</a>, <s><a href="https://www.dndbeyond.com/spells/mending" target="_blank">mending</a></s>, <a href="https://www.dndbeyond.com/spells/resistance" target="_blank">resistance</a>, <a href="https://www.dndbeyond.com/spells/spare-the-dying" target="_blank">spare the dying</a>, <s><a href="https://www.dndbeyond.com/spells/thaumaturgy" target="_blank">thaumaturgy</a></s>1st level (4 slots): <a href="https://www.dndbeyond.com/spells/command" target="_blank">command</a>, <a href="https://www.dndbeyond.com/spells/cure-wounds" target="_blank">cure wounds</a>, <s><a href="https://www.dndbeyond.com/spells/detect-magic" target="_blank">detect magic</a></s>, <a href="https://www.dndbeyond.com/spells/shield-of-faith" target="_blank">shield of faith</a>2nd level (3 slots): <s><a href="https://www.dndbeyond.com/spells/enthrall" target="_blank">enthrall</a></s>, <a href="https://www.dndbeyond.com/spells/hold-person" target="_blank">hold person</a>, <a href="https://www.dndbeyond.com/spells/silence" target="_blank">silence</a>3rd level (3 slots): <a href="https://www.dndbeyond.com/spells/bestow-curse" target="_blank">bestow curse</a>, <a href="https://www.dndbeyond.com/spells/dispel-magic" target="_blank">dispel magic</a>, <a href="https://www.dndbeyond.com/spells/nondetection" target="_blank">nondetection</a>, <s><a href="https://www.dndbeyond.com/spells/sending" target="_blank">sending</a></s>4th level (3 slots): <a href="https://www.dndbeyond.com/spells/confusion" target="_blank">confusion</a>, <a href="https://www.dndbeyond.com/spells/death-ward" target="_blank">death ward</a>, <a href="https://www.dndbeyond.com/spells/freedom-of-movement" target="_blank">freedom of movement</a>5th level (2 slots): <a href="https://www.dndbeyond.com/spells/mass-cure-wounds" target="_blank">mass cure wounds</a>, <s><a href="https://www.dndbeyond.com/spells/planar-binding" target="_blank">planar binding</a></s>, <s><a href="https://www.dndbeyond.com/spells/raise-dead" target="_blank">raise dead</a></s>6th level (1 slot): <a href="https://www.dndbeyond.com/spells/ottos-irresistible-dance" target="_blank">Otto's irresistible dance</a>, <s><a href="https://www.dndbeyond.com/spells/planar-ally" target="_blank">planar ally</a></s>7th level (1 slot): <a href="https://www.dndbeyond.com/spells/divine-word" target="_blank">divine word</a>, <s><a href="https://www.dndbeyond.com/spells/plane-shift" target="_blank">plane shift</a></s>8th level (1 slot): <s><a href="https://www.dndbeyond.com/spells/glibness" target="_blank">glibness</a></s>Telepathic Bond. Lavendeth ignores the range restriction on her telepathy when communicating with a creature she has charmed. The two don't even need to be on the same plane of existence.ACTIONSMultiattack. Lavendeth makes a claw attack and stinger attack.Claw. Melee Weapon Attack: +8 to hit, reach 5 ft., one target. Hit: 7 (1d6+4) slashing damage.Stinger. Melee Weapon Attack: +8 to hit, reach 10 ft., one target. Hit: 7 (1d6+4) piercing damage and 7 (2d6) poison damage, and the target’s Wisdom score is reduced by 1d4. The target becomes a mindless slave to Lavendeth if this reduces its Wisdom to 0, obeying her every whim. Only a wish spell can restore a creature made into her mindless slave. Otherwise, the reduction lasts until the target finishes a short or long rest.Lavendeth’s Gift (1/day). Lavendeth touches a willing or incapacitated creature, bestowing it with a magical charm for 24 hours or until dispel magic is cast on the creature. For the duration, Lavendeth’s name (written in Abyssal) appears as a tattoo somewhere on the creature’s body and the creature detects as a fiend to all abilities or spells that sense fiends. Additionally, while the charm is active, the creature gains advantage on its Charisma checks and all its saving throws. While the charm remains, Lavendeth can communicate telepathically with the creature even across planes, she has a sense of the creature’s general well-being, and as an action she can see and hear through the creature (becoming blinded and deafened to her own surroundings). Resuming her own senses requires a bonus action.[/SPOILER]</blockquote>

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