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Spells and Evaluating Monster CR
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<blockquote data-quote="Quickleaf" data-source="post: 8159483" data-attributes="member: 20323"><p>I appreciate you sharing your approach. I'm going to give it a try, and see what shakes out...</p><p></p><p><strong>Defensive CR 9</strong></p><p>eff HP = 117 * 1.5 (<u>for target CR 5-10</u>) = 175</p><p>eff AC = 16 + 2 saves + 2 magic resist = 20</p><p></p><p>or</p><p></p><p><strong>Defensive CR 8</strong></p><p>eff HP = 117 * 1.25 (<u>for target CR 11-16</u>) = 146</p><p>eff AC = 16 + 2 saves + 2 magic resist = 20</p><p></p><p></p><p>Ok, hypothetical 3 round combat means prioritizing 8th, 7th, and 6th level spell slots. Her spells are from bard & cleric lists, so going to stick to those. <em>Harm </em>(6th) (14d6 or 49), <em>Firestorm </em>(7th) (7d10 or 38 vs. two targets = 76), and since there's no damaging bard or cleric spell at 8th, I'll just go with another <em>Firestorm</em> I guess (76).</p><p></p><p>(49 + 76 + 76) / 3 = 67 DPR</p><p>Spell save DC is ~18</p><p>That gives me a <strong>data point Offensive CR = 11</strong></p><p></p><p>And (9 defensive CR + 11 offensive CR) / 2 = <strong>data point CR 10</strong>.</p><p></p><p></p><p>I'm going to assume average HP for a 10th level party is something like a d8, maximum at first, high average each level thereafter, with CON 14. So it would = 8 + (9 * 5) + (10 * 2) = 73 hit points.</p><p></p><p>She can cast two <em>plane shifts</em> with her 7th level and 8th level spell slots. Maybe I can equate an upcast 5th level <em>hold person</em> or <em>dominate person </em>as being roughly equivalent to a third <em>plane shift</em>? Maybe? I don't know. I'm going to do that just for the sake of completing the exercise.</p><p></p><p>That dives her a DPR of 73.</p><p></p><p>Which the magic on the DMG (page 274) tables gives us <strong>Offensive CR = 11.</strong></p><p></p><p>Same as above, (9 + 11) / 2 = <strong>Total CR 10.</strong></p><p></p><p></p><p>I'm going to assume average HP for a 9th level party is calculated same as I did above. So it would = 8 + (8 * 5) + (9 * 2) = 66 hit points.</p><p></p><p>DPR 66. Which gives us <strong>Offensive CR = 11</strong></p><p></p><p>And again, <strong>Total CR 10</strong>.</p><p></p><p>However... These "offensive" tactics are also about control, so they're reducing the overall damage/offense output the PCs can bring to bear against the monster. And somehow I'd need to account for that in her Defensive CR calculations, right?</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Quickleaf, post: 8159483, member: 20323"] I appreciate you sharing your approach. I'm going to give it a try, and see what shakes out... [B]Defensive CR 9[/B] eff HP = 117 * 1.5 ([U]for target CR 5-10[/U]) = 175 eff AC = 16 + 2 saves + 2 magic resist = 20 or [B]Defensive CR 8[/B] eff HP = 117 * 1.25 ([U]for target CR 11-16[/U]) = 146 eff AC = 16 + 2 saves + 2 magic resist = 20 Ok, hypothetical 3 round combat means prioritizing 8th, 7th, and 6th level spell slots. Her spells are from bard & cleric lists, so going to stick to those. [I]Harm [/I](6th) (14d6 or 49), [I]Firestorm [/I](7th) (7d10 or 38 vs. two targets = 76), and since there's no damaging bard or cleric spell at 8th, I'll just go with another [I]Firestorm[/I] I guess (76). (49 + 76 + 76) / 3 = 67 DPR Spell save DC is ~18 That gives me a [B]data point Offensive CR = 11[/B] And (9 defensive CR + 11 offensive CR) / 2 = [B]data point CR 10[/B]. I'm going to assume average HP for a 10th level party is something like a d8, maximum at first, high average each level thereafter, with CON 14. So it would = 8 + (9 * 5) + (10 * 2) = 73 hit points. She can cast two [I]plane shifts[/I] with her 7th level and 8th level spell slots. Maybe I can equate an upcast 5th level [I]hold person[/I] or [I]dominate person [/I]as being roughly equivalent to a third [I]plane shift[/I]? Maybe? I don't know. I'm going to do that just for the sake of completing the exercise. That dives her a DPR of 73. Which the magic on the DMG (page 274) tables gives us [B]Offensive CR = 11.[/B] Same as above, (9 + 11) / 2 = [B]Total CR 10.[/B] I'm going to assume average HP for a 9th level party is calculated same as I did above. So it would = 8 + (8 * 5) + (9 * 2) = 66 hit points. DPR 66. Which gives us [B]Offensive CR = 11[/B] And again, [B]Total CR 10[/B]. However... These "offensive" tactics are also about control, so they're reducing the overall damage/offense output the PCs can bring to bear against the monster. And somehow I'd need to account for that in her Defensive CR calculations, right? [/QUOTE]
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