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<blockquote data-quote="NotAYakk" data-source="post: 8159574" data-attributes="member: 72555">Honestly, it is just &quot;fireball is a nasty spell.&nbsp; So is hold person.&quot;Both are strong top-tier spells.&nbsp; Hold person is an upcast lower level spell, but it is overpowered in the hands of monsters, because all PCs are persons.Planeshift and Disintegrate produce similar levels of dread.&nbsp; They are both save or be gone for good at around this level; disintegrate requires prior damage on some targets, planeshift an attack and a save....So the thing is that offence and defence are fungible under CR calculations.&nbsp; Preventing X damage and dealing X damage are very similar in value.&nbsp; I mean, not identical, but similar.As 5e monsters are pretry linear (well affine) in danger with CR, getting a 12 or a 13 or a 11 CR calculation really doesn't matter.&nbsp; That is a difference of under 10% threat.&nbsp; (CR 1/2 to 1 to 2 is larger percentage wise by far, which is why mobs of monsters tend to be a delecate problem; rounding/errors in them in theory matter more)The practical goal is to avoid a CR 25 monster or CR 1 glass cannon when you want a CR 12 challenge, not avoid an accidental CR 14.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="NotAYakk, post: 8159574, member: 72555"] Honestly, it is just "fireball is a nasty spell. So is hold person." Both are strong top-tier spells. Hold person is an upcast lower level spell, but it is overpowered in the hands of monsters, because all PCs are persons. Planeshift and Disintegrate produce similar levels of dread. They are both save or be gone for good at around this level; disintegrate requires prior damage on some targets, planeshift an attack and a save. ... So the thing is that offence and defence are fungible under CR calculations. Preventing X damage and dealing X damage are very similar in value. I mean, not identical, but similar. As 5e monsters are pretry linear (well affine) in danger with CR, getting a 12 or a 13 or a 11 CR calculation really doesn't matter. That is a difference of under 10% threat. (CR 1/2 to 1 to 2 is larger percentage wise by far, which is why mobs of monsters tend to be a delecate problem; rounding/errors in them in theory matter more) The practical goal is to avoid a CR 25 monster or CR 1 glass cannon when you want a CR 12 challenge, not avoid an accidental CR 14. [/QUOTE]

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