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Message: <blockquote data-quote="BryonD" data-source="post: 5078925" data-attributes="member: 957">I pretty much agree.I think the issue at hand though deals with Listen and Spot checks, so examples that invalidate that condition are rather off topic.I do agree that magic can trump skills in general.An even more simple example would be: You need to climb a tower, who is better a rogue with high climb or a wizard with spider climb?I still want hide and move silent to interact correctly with spot / listen.  Rolling these two pairs into a single Stealth/Perception pair is perfectly fine, but doesn't change the case by case.Magic trumping skills does not bother me in the least.  Skills should function properly regardless of the presence or lack of magic.</blockquote>