Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Community
Archive Forums
Hosted Forums
Personal & Hosted Forums
Hosted Publisher Forums
Bad Axe Games Hosted Forum
[SPELLS and MAGIC] Design Discussion
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="BryonD" data-source="post: 5080011" data-attributes="member: 957"><p>This I accept. I'll even one up you and offer that DC 10 + Stealth / 20+ Stealth and 20+Stealth / 30+ Stealth could very reasonably replace 20/30 and 30/40.</p><p></p><p>You are now designing a wizard spell for the rogue's sake. You should design spells for the spell's quality's sake.</p><p>Is Spider Climb a broken spell? Does it need to be nerfed? (cause you just nerfed it) If it does need to be nerfed, then rename it. Because you just repeated the Darkness mistake. You have a spell called Spider Climb that fails to allow someone to climb like a spider. So you now have a spell called Monkey Climb, or somesuch, and it works as you describe. Fine. Do I as a player ever bother to take this spell or do I throw it on the <em>once every four or five years of play</em> utility stack?</p><p></p><p>Now, if you do declare it is broken as is and make this change, then my first move will be to introduce you to a new spell. It is called Spider Climb. It is a L2 wizard spell. Do you think my spell is broken? I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess no. So, my second level spell is balanced, if not notably weak, and it still has the exact same impact on the rogue. </p><p></p><p>So nerfing a spell doesn't solve the problem. </p><p></p><p></p><p>Alternative rule: Roll for concealment first. Only if a valid attack is established does the attack proceed. You will never see another crit nullified ever again.</p><p></p><p>Your own example supports that concealment produces the attacking hoping to get lucky scenario. </p><p>How many times in your games has anyone ever scored a critical hit against a target with full cover? I'm betting it has a better track record than concealment does at warding off crits.</p><p></p><p>Now it may be partly the rules and partly lazy dming (I'm speaking for myself here) in that cover, and primarily partial cover, gets short-changed in regard to armor class bonus. If plate armor can get up to +10 an AC, then being 75% behind a brick wall should be in that ballpark. But I'll be the first to admit that it is way to easy in the heat of dice-rolling to just agree that line of sight exists and then treat the attack as normal. Give some +7 AC bonuses and not only will you get a lot more misses, cover will really cut down on crits.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="BryonD, post: 5080011, member: 957"] This I accept. I'll even one up you and offer that DC 10 + Stealth / 20+ Stealth and 20+Stealth / 30+ Stealth could very reasonably replace 20/30 and 30/40. You are now designing a wizard spell for the rogue's sake. You should design spells for the spell's quality's sake. Is Spider Climb a broken spell? Does it need to be nerfed? (cause you just nerfed it) If it does need to be nerfed, then rename it. Because you just repeated the Darkness mistake. You have a spell called Spider Climb that fails to allow someone to climb like a spider. So you now have a spell called Monkey Climb, or somesuch, and it works as you describe. Fine. Do I as a player ever bother to take this spell or do I throw it on the [i]once every four or five years of play[/i] utility stack? Now, if you do declare it is broken as is and make this change, then my first move will be to introduce you to a new spell. It is called Spider Climb. It is a L2 wizard spell. Do you think my spell is broken? I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess no. So, my second level spell is balanced, if not notably weak, and it still has the exact same impact on the rogue. So nerfing a spell doesn't solve the problem. Alternative rule: Roll for concealment first. Only if a valid attack is established does the attack proceed. You will never see another crit nullified ever again. Your own example supports that concealment produces the attacking hoping to get lucky scenario. How many times in your games has anyone ever scored a critical hit against a target with full cover? I'm betting it has a better track record than concealment does at warding off crits. Now it may be partly the rules and partly lazy dming (I'm speaking for myself here) in that cover, and primarily partial cover, gets short-changed in regard to armor class bonus. If plate armor can get up to +10 an AC, then being 75% behind a brick wall should be in that ballpark. But I'll be the first to admit that it is way to easy in the heat of dice-rolling to just agree that line of sight exists and then treat the attack as normal. Give some +7 AC bonuses and not only will you get a lot more misses, cover will really cut down on crits. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
Archive Forums
Hosted Forums
Personal & Hosted Forums
Hosted Publisher Forums
Bad Axe Games Hosted Forum
[SPELLS and MAGIC] Design Discussion
Top