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General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Spells cast at higher level spell slots. Worth it?
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<blockquote data-quote="clearstream" data-source="post: 7039224" data-attributes="member: 71699"><p>I think you are talking about the desirability of producing a high alpha. I agree that a high alpha is optimal in cases where <strong>total HP of targets including healing < damage output of available Fireball casts</strong>. (But not if it is sufficiently less that Burning Hands would do.) When the total HP of those targets is greater (again including healing), then a pure alpha approach hits a snag. Efficiency is the output divided by the input. Given the output of damage divided by the input of spell slot levels, Burning Hands is more efficient.</p><p></p><p></p><p>That is so true. The action economy matters within an encounter. Spanning encounters, efficiency comes into play. I've noticed that characters over about 8th level have incredible resources for an alpha (including class features like Portent!) So far in play they seem to be most interestingly challenged by the second, third or fourth encounter. To me the game looks best balanced around half a dozen encounters between long rests.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Free auto-scaling was degenerate in 3.5. Casters came to overshadow other characters. So from experience we have some good reasons for caution. I'm generally arguing to take into account a broader view of balance: across classes and across encounters. The casters with narrow spell selections generally get to trade in lower spells for higher, suggesting a design intent that they should do that. If nevertheless it is important to a player that they can continue to use a spell like Burning Hands instead of their Eldritch Blast or a Fireball, then so far there doesn't seem to be a compelling reason to change spell damage scaling for <u>every class</u>! Consider first options like fixing the class you find too narrow.</p><p></p><p>Later this afternoon I'm giving a short talk on strategy mechanics in which I argue that good balance = diversity. Ideally, many competing choices are all valid. Through that lense, the problem could very well be that Fireball and Lightning Bolts pay over the odds. Rather than the other spells all need to auto-scale harder.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="clearstream, post: 7039224, member: 71699"] I think you are talking about the desirability of producing a high alpha. I agree that a high alpha is optimal in cases where [B]total HP of targets including healing < damage output of available Fireball casts[/B]. (But not if it is sufficiently less that Burning Hands would do.) When the total HP of those targets is greater (again including healing), then a pure alpha approach hits a snag. Efficiency is the output divided by the input. Given the output of damage divided by the input of spell slot levels, Burning Hands is more efficient. That is so true. The action economy matters within an encounter. Spanning encounters, efficiency comes into play. I've noticed that characters over about 8th level have incredible resources for an alpha (including class features like Portent!) So far in play they seem to be most interestingly challenged by the second, third or fourth encounter. To me the game looks best balanced around half a dozen encounters between long rests. Free auto-scaling was degenerate in 3.5. Casters came to overshadow other characters. So from experience we have some good reasons for caution. I'm generally arguing to take into account a broader view of balance: across classes and across encounters. The casters with narrow spell selections generally get to trade in lower spells for higher, suggesting a design intent that they should do that. If nevertheless it is important to a player that they can continue to use a spell like Burning Hands instead of their Eldritch Blast or a Fireball, then so far there doesn't seem to be a compelling reason to change spell damage scaling for [U]every class[/U]! Consider first options like fixing the class you find too narrow. Later this afternoon I'm giving a short talk on strategy mechanics in which I argue that good balance = diversity. Ideally, many competing choices are all valid. Through that lense, the problem could very well be that Fireball and Lightning Bolts pay over the odds. Rather than the other spells all need to auto-scale harder. [/QUOTE]
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