Spells for Figurin' out what things do...

[FCWesel]

Doesn't Analyze Dweomer seem a bit too expensive for a 6th level spell? Here's the other magical detection spells for Wiz/Sor characters. Note that it doesn't work on artifacts.

Dt. Magic (0 level) will tell you auras. So you can determine if something is "enchantment" or "transmutation", and what level of power and caster level.

Identify (1 level) will tell you "+" (or "-", I guess, if there is one) but not special abilities, such as vorpral, or other spell-like abilities.

Analyze Dweomer (6 level) This spell can detect item properties, but it seems way to high on the spell lists, should be lower, 4th maybe. 8 hours to cast. A property revealed each round. Caster check needed for each property (CL+d20 vs power's caster level), if you fail you cannot try for that power again unless you cast it again. Once all properties are done, the spell ends even if duration would still be on. Then you need to make a Fort roll, DC 21, or be unable to do anything but rest for 1d8 hours after. On top of that you need a 1,500 ruby/sapphire in a gold setting (reusable I hope) to cast the spell.

Any thoughts?

 

[tburdett]

Seems just fine to me.

Gives the players a lot of useful information about an item in a relatively short period of time.

Compare that 8 hours to the amount of time it would probably take to experiment with the item to learn its abilities and you'll hopefully agree that it's not that bad.

You also failed to mention that Identify also takes 8 hours and requires the use of a 100gp gem, and all you learn is the + of the item.

 

[KarinsDad]

Seems just fine to me.

I think you kind of missed his point:

0: potential auras
1: lowest ability known, number of charges, 100 GP
6: each ability a roll, fatigue chance, 1500 GP

So, not only does it cost 15 times as much to potentially get just one more ability (say for a two ability item), you also have to make a roll for each ability, it is 5 spell levels higher, AND, there is a good chance that you are fatigued afterwards with Analyze Dweomer.

So, you could miss some, most, or all of your rolls, learn nothing, and still pay out 1500 GP and still be fatigued. And, you had to wait 10 (Wizard) or 11 (Sorcerer) levels to find out this nothing.

Personally, I agree with the original poster. This is a design fubar.

 

[FCWesel]

"AD" has a potential 16 hour of time taken; 8 hours to cast plus another 1D8 on top of that if you fail the save.


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Okay that was a little wierd..one minute I go to answer second post and i hit "reply" and another post snuck in ...wierd. Just one of those "internet boogey man things".

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To third poster...thanks for clearing what I meant up, you got my point exactly.

 

[tburdett]

Obviously, at least to me, the game designers wanted it to be difficult, expensive, risky, AND time consuming for a spellcaster to fully identify a magic item. The spell CLEARLY demonstrates that.

This is reflected in the cost, the length of time to cast the spell, the possible side-effects from casting the spell, and the spell level. Any DM can choose to alter ANY aspect of the spell that they are not happy with. I choose to leave it as is because I believe that the game designers had the right idea.

You should try to keep in mind that this spell is NOT meant to be an adventuring spell. You should cast this spell in a safe location when time and danger are not factors. Casting any 8 hour spell in the middle of hostile territory is never a good idea.

As always, just my opinions.

 

[FCWesel]

While the time thing you mentioned is a possibility, the book's author's do go about writing a example as to how it could be used to examine a door's enchantments (or even a companion's furse) and such.

Think of Gandalf's casting of various spells on the Door's of Moria to gain entrance of the Dwarven Kingdom as a example of this example.

 

[tburdett]

That's true.

Characters often encounter situations that require them to make difficult decisions.

Deciding to spend 8 hours in the middle of a dungeon to examine a door or a curse would be a difficult decision to make, especially if you knew that there were hostile creatures on the prowl.

Sometimes you accept this risk and do what you have to do, and sometimes you decide that the risk is to great and either fall back or soldier on.

None of these things, however, change the fact that the designers seem to have intentionally made the spell difficult, expensive, time consuming, and risky to cast.

 

[Thanee]

That's why higher level Loremasters are really nifty!

BTW, from the aura detected via Detect Magic, you can tell a lot of stuff, combined with Identify this should be able to tell you most of the time, whether there are extra powers present and the like.

Of course, finding out the exact powers without AD is a little difficult.

BTW, KarinsDad, AD has a focus cost of 1.5k, not a material component cost, so you end up paying that 1.5k only once at least!

Bye
Thanee

 

[Vaxalon]

Personally, I like the fact that AD is high-level, time-consuming, and risky. If it weren't, it'd be way too easy for an adventuring party to bypass various curses and magical traps.

 

[Petrosian]

I agree that the designers went about those spells to make it very difficult to get reliable quick information about magic items.

Unfortunatley, they also created a world where "magic commerce" is a common staple and where practically everything bigger than a hut has some magic item, trinket, bauble for sale.

those two are woefully inconsistent to me. A functional commerce needs some ability to readily evaluate the product being sold.

or so it would seem to me.