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<blockquote data-quote="Sparafucile" data-source="post: 4169002" data-attributes="member: 47905">Good point. I guess I'd say that my players don't know, unless they're reading this now.Before I came up with the list this morning, I actually didn't know either. I just realized that I've been passively avoiding many of these spells from the beginning, and I thought I'd look at the PH and formally find them all. One problem for PCs aware of a &quot;soft ban&quot; is that spells like Death Ward are no longer useful. Why would a cleric bother keeping a slot for it when there's no chance of facing a death attack or a level drain? Removing fear is also a heroic action, and the cleric never gets that chance to shine. I guess I could reconstitute all the spells to do specific ability score damage instead of &quot;save or die,&quot; but then the spells have to be altered both ways, denying the PCs their &quot;save or die&quot; effects and opening up a whole can of extra rules for the agressive spells and the defensive spells that counter them. So far, this has worked out allright . . . but I can definitely see the inherent clunkiness you all are pointing out.Maybe I can just do a 4th edition woogie, and justify it the same way that NPCs are justified in being denied Raise Dead? Hmm . . . <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile&nbsp; &nbsp; :)"&nbsp; data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /></blockquote>

[QUOTE="Sparafucile, post: 4169002, member: 47905"] Good point. I guess I'd say that my players don't know, unless they're reading this now. Before I came up with the list this morning, I actually didn't know either. I just realized that I've been passively avoiding many of these spells from the beginning, and I thought I'd look at the PH and formally find them all. One problem for PCs aware of a "soft ban" is that spells like Death Ward are no longer useful. Why would a cleric bother keeping a slot for it when there's no chance of facing a death attack or a level drain? Removing fear is also a heroic action, and the cleric never gets that chance to shine. I guess I could reconstitute all the spells to do specific ability score damage instead of "save or die," but then the spells have to be altered both ways, denying the PCs their "save or die" effects and opening up a whole can of extra rules for the agressive spells and the defensive spells that counter them. So far, this has worked out allright . . . but I can definitely see the inherent clunkiness you all are pointing out. Maybe I can just do a 4th edition woogie, and justify it the same way that NPCs are justified in being denied Raise Dead? Hmm . . . :) [/QUOTE]

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