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Message: <blockquote data-quote="hayek" data-source="post: 6336533" data-attributes="member: 53760">Yes!! I go for this award in every thread I'm in. I'm glad somebody appreciates all my hard work <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" />On a more serious note, the reason I wanted to so desperately over-emphasize that point is because I think a lot of people view this thread as you have summed up here:I don't think that's the right way to view this argument. Of course, it is clear that people have different opinions, and you can't "prove" to someone that their opinion is wrong. However, there is an objective angle that can be argued, and I think it's the more important one:1) The Starter Set/D&D Basic/PHB/MM are trying to offer a simpler/classic version of d&d where the rules don't get in the way of play. You can sit down and quickly get into an exciting story and not have to spend time referencing rules to resolve every little bit of action - in fact the goal is to have to stop play to reference rules as little as possible while still providing an enjoyable play experience. This is both to attract new players, and to offer older/lapsed players a way to get back into the hobby without feeling overwhelmed by the amount of rules (the issue of "15 minutes of fun crammed into 4 hours").2) Spell lists in stat blocks that do not handily provide all the needed information to play a monster contradict point #1 by either:a) requiring stopping play to look up spell rulesb) requiring extensive rules/system mastery on the part of the DMc) requiring lots of pre-session prepwork just spent transcribing/summarizing spell rules All of these items are not amenable to the "quickly pick up and play" experience, and reinforce the feeling of the play being the product of the rules, rather than the fun being the product of the play and the rules just trying to stay out of the way3) Of course, some people want a more involved form of play, which is perfectly understandable. More involved forms of play will be offered in modules, and monsters with detail-less spell lists should be just such a form of 'advanced' module for those who want it.I agree with the OP that detail-less spell lists in stat blocks are terrible, not because in my one random opinion they're terrible, or even because I believe a random sampling of people posting on this forum believes that. I think they're terrible because of the provable arguments outlined above. Now, you can certainly disagree with the points outlined above, as they are arguable, but I think the thread discussion should be focused on whether, and if so why, those arguments are wrong, rather than just saying "I like spell lists in stat blocks, so I don't see what the problem is" or "I don't like spell lists either, that's at least 2 of us, so we're right".</blockquote>

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