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<blockquote data-quote="Jeff Wilder" data-source="post: 2049068" data-attributes="member: 5122">It would, however, also be substantially more powerful.&nbsp; Everyone has Reflex saves.&nbsp; Not everyone has Balance ranks.&nbsp; A forced Balance check of 15 or so is much harder to make for most characters and monsters than a Reflex save of 15 or so.You're not the first to say this about a single round, and I just dont get it.&nbsp; I use grease fairly often with my primary PC, and I (a) usually use it on Large creatures (b) who are unable to move out of the effect.&nbsp; It's not at all a difficult situation to achieve.&nbsp; I would love for it to deny Dex, setting the two rogues up for sneak attacks, but IMO it's just too powerful that way.&nbsp; As is, it's a very good first-level spell.Also note that there's no way for the target to avoid the huge tactical disadvantage being imposed on him by the &quot;no Dex&quot; ruling.&nbsp; (Aside from having 5 ranks in Balance, and who's going to cast the spell at a thief-acrobat?)&nbsp; Apparently, even if he makes his save, y'all would deny him Dex.Summoned creatures can sometimes be worked around, and color spray has limits on hit dice affected.&nbsp; Not to mention that grease has substantial effects aside from the &quot;no Dex&quot; side-effect y'all wanna give it, whereas the other two spells you mentioned are pretty much specifically intended to have that effect.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Jeff Wilder, post: 2049068, member: 5122"] It would, however, also be substantially more powerful. Everyone has Reflex saves. Not everyone has Balance ranks. A forced Balance check of 15 or so is much harder to make for most characters and monsters than a Reflex save of 15 or so. You're not the first to say this about a single round, and I just dont get it. I use [i]grease[/i] fairly often with my primary PC, and I (a) usually use it on Large creatures (b) who are unable to move out of the effect. It's not at all a difficult situation to achieve. I would [i]love[/i] for it to deny Dex, setting the two rogues up for sneak attacks, but IMO it's just too powerful that way. As is, it's a very good first-level spell. Also note that there's [i]no way[/i] for the target to avoid the huge tactical disadvantage being imposed on him by the "no Dex" ruling. (Aside from having 5 ranks in Balance, and who's going to cast the spell at a thief-acrobat?) Apparently, even if he makes his save, y'all would deny him Dex. Summoned creatures can sometimes be worked around, and [i]color spray[/i] has limits on hit dice affected. Not to mention that [i]grease[/i] has substantial effects aside from the "no Dex" side-effect y'all wanna give it, whereas the other two spells you mentioned are pretty much specifically [i]intended[/i] to have that effect. [/QUOTE]

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