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Spells that turned out to be a lot more powerful than you thought
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<blockquote data-quote="Fanaelialae" data-source="post: 6538316" data-attributes="member: 53980"><p>I never said that every monster had to attack in round 1, I said it was a tradeoff. And yes, its good tactics on the PCs part to limit the enemies number of attacks (whether by funneling them through a narrow passage or engaging melee creatures at range). However, it does make the encounter easier if the enemy can't all attack on round one. There's a big difference between an encounter with 20 enemies where they can all attack on round 1 (perhaps because they have a good ranged option) and one in which 20 enemies come at them in smaller waves. The former is likely to hurt at lot more than the latter.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I agree that metagame stuff should be thrown out the window. As I said in my previous post, I wouldn't have bullywugs adopt a modern military formation (which I thought you were suggesting as a counter to fireball, but perhaps I misunderstood your intent) or a Roman one because I don't think they'd normally be disciplined enough to utilize such tactics. Personally, I'd arrange them in small clusters, because this would arguably help deter natural predators, which is probably a more common concern for them. Unfortunately, this would either make them prime candidates for a fireball if the groups are near each other, or make it easy to pick off individual groups one at a time if they're far from each other. In the latter case, using a 3rd level spell slot might be a waste of resources.</p><p></p><p>If they can readily attack the PCs, then they're vulnerable to fireball. If they're can't, it was likely an easy encounter anyway, and Conjure Animals simply made it easier. In the first case it means it's on par with other third level spells, while in the second it only shows that this scenario isn't a good test case for determining how balanced conjure animals is compared to other 3rd level spells.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Fanaelialae, post: 6538316, member: 53980"] I never said that every monster had to attack in round 1, I said it was a tradeoff. And yes, its good tactics on the PCs part to limit the enemies number of attacks (whether by funneling them through a narrow passage or engaging melee creatures at range). However, it does make the encounter easier if the enemy can't all attack on round one. There's a big difference between an encounter with 20 enemies where they can all attack on round 1 (perhaps because they have a good ranged option) and one in which 20 enemies come at them in smaller waves. The former is likely to hurt at lot more than the latter. I agree that metagame stuff should be thrown out the window. As I said in my previous post, I wouldn't have bullywugs adopt a modern military formation (which I thought you were suggesting as a counter to fireball, but perhaps I misunderstood your intent) or a Roman one because I don't think they'd normally be disciplined enough to utilize such tactics. Personally, I'd arrange them in small clusters, because this would arguably help deter natural predators, which is probably a more common concern for them. Unfortunately, this would either make them prime candidates for a fireball if the groups are near each other, or make it easy to pick off individual groups one at a time if they're far from each other. In the latter case, using a 3rd level spell slot might be a waste of resources. If they can readily attack the PCs, then they're vulnerable to fireball. If they're can't, it was likely an easy encounter anyway, and Conjure Animals simply made it easier. In the first case it means it's on par with other third level spells, while in the second it only shows that this scenario isn't a good test case for determining how balanced conjure animals is compared to other 3rd level spells. [/QUOTE]
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