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<blockquote data-quote="UngeheuerLich" data-source="post: 4941737" data-attributes="member: 59057">Silent expeditious retreat is indeed a good idea <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink&nbsp; &nbsp; ;)"&nbsp; data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" />&nbsp;But I disagree with dozen win buttons. Usually most of them have saves. (I have to look up the ray of enfeeblement spell which may be quite devastating, but not at level 3 i think)&nbsp;Sleep (no save in the last 30 years), as you may remember was nerved in 3.5 to grant a will save. In the spell system of ADnD where you had to win initiative and not be in melee to cast a spell, spells without saves are fine, but in a system where it is known before you cast, that your casting will succeed, such spells are a no go. Or actually may be cast a long time before you enter the encounter...&nbsp;... cast it on a crossbow bolt and shoot at the wizard.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="UngeheuerLich, post: 4941737, member: 59057"] Silent expeditious retreat is indeed a good idea ;) But I disagree with dozen win buttons. Usually most of them have saves. (I have to look up the ray of enfeeblement spell which may be quite devastating, but not at level 3 i think) Sleep (no save in the last 30 years), as you may remember was nerved in 3.5 to grant a will save. In the spell system of ADnD where you had to win initiative and not be in melee to cast a spell, spells without saves are fine, but in a system where it is known before you cast, that your casting will succeed, such spells are a no go. Or actually may be cast a long time before you enter the encounter... ... cast it on a crossbow bolt and shoot at the wizard. [/QUOTE]

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