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Message: <blockquote data-quote="JiffyPopTart" data-source="post: 4991413" data-attributes="member: 4881">In the real world, actually getting HIT by most of the weapons in the PHB would either take you out of the fight (at best for you) to instantly kill you by causing massive damage (at worst for you).  Instead in D&D it takes off some HP.In the real world, an assassin successfully sneaking up behind someone in shoving a stiletto in their throat kills them instantly and silently.  Instead in D&D it takes off some HP.In the real world, falling 30 feet onto cobblestone would either cause massive fractures (at best for you) or just outright kill you (at worst for you). Instead in D&D it takes off some HP.I could go on and on, but I think I have made my point.There are a LOT of "in the real world" things that D&D doesn't simulate correctly.  Some things are handwaved because they aren't important (getting stomach bugs from drinking from a creek) or handwaved because of balance (and yes, balance even applies to older versions of D&D) by the implementation of the HP mechanic.  Why would someone argue that its fair that weapons get "nerfed" by having to go through the HP mechanics and then at the same time complain about how unfair it is that magic has to go through the same mechanic?I am all for having different feels for magic versus mundane.  I think it would go a long way to making magic feel different, and exciting.  That mechanic doesn't have to be save-or-die.  There is nothing particularly "magical" about save-or-die, its just unfun.  It would be unfun if the evil assassin trying to kill me made me save vs. FORT or die.  It would be unfun if the evil barbarian hit me with a greatsword and I had to save vs. REF or die.  It is equally unfun if the evil wizard commands me to slit my own throat and I have to save vs. WILL or die.Ultimately, if you feel that you enjoy save-or-die, then good for you and your team.  Everyone plays D&D differently.  Pathfinder might be what you are looking for.  If you don't like save-or-die then great, look into 4e or some other product that doesn't have the same mechanic.  The original topic asked "Spells which were not properly nerfed" to which some replied "I think the save-or-die spells should have been nerfed".  That's just some persons opinion.Personally, I think save-or-die spells should be nerfed because I do not think its good game balance (or design if the word balance makes you crabby) to have equal level enemies taken out because of one die roll.  That applies to magic, weapons, natural sources, etc...  The reason is because save-or-die (to me) is not fun.  I play D&D to have fun.DS</blockquote>

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