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<blockquote data-quote="Luthien Greyspear" data-source="post: 3434801" data-attributes="member: 34334">Has anyone here played with the idea of spicing up the dead levels in the various PrC's by allowing a dead level to count as a level in a regular class?&nbsp; Basically, allowing the 'dead level' to instead function as though the character advanced one level in any base class of their choosing.&nbsp; All class abilities of that base class would improve, including undead turning, familiar advancement, wild shape, etc.&nbsp; To make it interesting, you should even include levels that grant a &quot;+1 caster level&quot; but no other class abilities as a 'dead level'.As an example, let's use a bladesinger, which has four 'dead levels': levels 3, 5, 7, and 9.&nbsp; Let's say the base character is a Fighter 3/Wizard 4/Bladesinger X (not optimal, but bear with me for the example).&nbsp; At the dead levels, the character would be able to choose either fighter or wizard as his class to advance, but not both.&nbsp; If the character focused on wizard exclusively, his character profile would look much the same as he would if he advanced in bladesinger normally: +5 caster levels (to 9th), but with the addition of a metamagic or item creation feat (advancing to 5th level mage at 3rd level) and the additional benefits to his familiar (speak with master at 3rd, and speak with other animals at 7th level bladesinger).But what if he took one of those levels and advanced fighter instead?&nbsp; He would lose 5th level spells, and gain a feat and access to Weapon Specialization.&nbsp; I don't know of many players that would scoff at access to that feat for a melee specialist.One important thing that would have to happen would be to eliminate the &quot;+1 caster level&quot; that might occur at these dead levels.&nbsp; Instead, since the player has the option of increasing a base classes abilities entirely, it is up to them if they increase a class that has spellcasting ability.&nbsp; In the case of the bladesinger above, the character is shifting his focuse slightly away from spellcasting to take advantage of improved melee damage.A look through some of the Complete and Psionic books yields the following classes that would be affected by this change in the rules.&nbsp; I have excluded classes like the Tattooed Monk that have a class ability that already advances them significantly in a base classes' abilities (Tattooed Monk level = regular monk levels), or is designed specifically for spell-caster multi-classing (Mystic Theurge, Cerebremancer).Complete Warrior:&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Bear Warrior (levels 2, 4, 6, 8, and 9)&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Bladesinger (levels 3, 5, 7, and 9)&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Halfling Outrider (levels 6 and 9)&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Hunter of the Dead* (levels 4, 7, and 9)&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Kensai (levels 3, 6, and 9)&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Knight of the Chalice* (level 7)&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Order of the Bow Initiate (level 8)&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Rage Mage (levels 4 and 6)&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Ronin (levels 3, 6, and 8)&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; War Chanter (levels 2, 4, 6, and 9)Complete Arcane&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Acolyte of the Skin (levels 4 and 8)&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Effigy Master (levels 2 and 4)&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Mindbender (level 9)&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Seeker of the Song (levels 3, 6, 8, and 9) -- I don't think the seeker melodies constitute true class abilities; they're more like new spells.&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Suel Arcanamach* (levels 5, 8, and 9)&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Wild Mage (levels 4 and 7)Complete Divine&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Black Flame Zealot (levels 4 and 8)&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Church Inquisitor (level 7)&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Consecrated Harrier* (levels 7 and 9)&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Contemplative (levels 4 and 8)&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Divine Crusader* (levels 2 and 4)&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Divine Oracle (levels 7 and 9)&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Entropomancer (levels 2, 4, 6, and 8)&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Holy Liberator* (levels 7 and 9)&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Hospitaler (levels 2, 4, 6, 8, and 10)&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Pious Templar* (levels 5 and 9)&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Radiant Servant of Pelor (levels 4, 7, and 9)&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Rainbow Servant (levels 2, 3, 5, 6, 8, and 9)&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Seeker of the Misty Isle (levels 2, 3, and 8)&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Shining Blade of Heironeous (levels 2, 4, 6, 8, and 10)&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Ur-Priest* (levels 1, 3, 5, 7, 9)&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Void Disciple (levels 2 and 6)&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Warpriest (level 8)Complete Adventurer&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Daggerspell Mage (level 4)&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Maester (levels 2 and 4)&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Ollam (levels 2 and 4)&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Shadowmind (levels 4, 6, and 7)&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Virtuoso (levels 2, 4, 6, and 8)Expanded Psionics Handbook&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Illithid Slayer (level 5)&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Thrallherd (levels 2, 4, 6, and 8)&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Warmind* (level 4)Complete Psionic&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Anarchic Initiate (levels 5 and 9)&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Personally, I think this would open the door for a little more variety in these classes, and would help to give them the personality of the character, rather than the character being forced to adopt the &quot;personality&quot; of the class.What do you guys think?</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Luthien Greyspear, post: 3434801, member: 34334"] Has anyone here played with the idea of spicing up the dead levels in the various PrC's by allowing a dead level to count as a level in a regular class? Basically, allowing the 'dead level' to instead function as though the character advanced one level in any base class of their choosing. All class abilities of that base class would improve, including undead turning, familiar advancement, wild shape, etc. To make it interesting, you should even include levels that grant a "+1 caster level" but no other class abilities as a 'dead level'. As an example, let's use a bladesinger, which has four 'dead levels': levels 3, 5, 7, and 9. Let's say the base character is a Fighter 3/Wizard 4/Bladesinger X (not optimal, but bear with me for the example). At the dead levels, the character would be able to choose either fighter or wizard as his class to advance, but not both. If the character focused on wizard exclusively, his character profile would look much the same as he would if he advanced in bladesinger normally: +5 caster levels (to 9th), but with the addition of a metamagic or item creation feat (advancing to 5th level mage at 3rd level) and the additional benefits to his familiar (speak with master at 3rd, and speak with other animals at 7th level bladesinger). But what if he took one of those levels and advanced fighter instead? He would lose 5th level spells, and gain a feat and access to Weapon Specialization. I don't know of many players that would scoff at access to that feat for a melee specialist. One important thing that would have to happen would be to eliminate the "+1 caster level" that might occur at these dead levels. Instead, since the player has the option of increasing a base classes abilities entirely, it is up to them if they increase a class that has spellcasting ability. In the case of the bladesinger above, the character is shifting his focuse slightly away from spellcasting to take advantage of improved melee damage. A look through some of the Complete and Psionic books yields the following classes that would be affected by this change in the rules. I have excluded classes like the Tattooed Monk that have a class ability that already advances them significantly in a base classes' abilities (Tattooed Monk level = regular monk levels), or is designed specifically for spell-caster multi-classing (Mystic Theurge, Cerebremancer). [U]Complete Warrior[/U]: Bear Warrior (levels 2, 4, 6, 8, and 9) Bladesinger (levels 3, 5, 7, and 9) Halfling Outrider (levels 6 and 9) Hunter of the Dead* (levels 4, 7, and 9) Kensai (levels 3, 6, and 9) Knight of the Chalice* (level 7) Order of the Bow Initiate (level 8) Rage Mage (levels 4 and 6) Ronin (levels 3, 6, and 8) War Chanter (levels 2, 4, 6, and 9) [U]Complete Arcane[/U] Acolyte of the Skin (levels 4 and 8) Effigy Master (levels 2 and 4) Mindbender (level 9) Seeker of the Song (levels 3, 6, 8, and 9) -- I don't think the seeker melodies constitute true class abilities; they're more like new spells. Suel Arcanamach* (levels 5, 8, and 9) Wild Mage (levels 4 and 7) [U]Complete Divine[/U] Black Flame Zealot (levels 4 and 8) Church Inquisitor (level 7) Consecrated Harrier* (levels 7 and 9) Contemplative (levels 4 and 8) Divine Crusader* (levels 2 and 4) Divine Oracle (levels 7 and 9) Entropomancer (levels 2, 4, 6, and 8) Holy Liberator* (levels 7 and 9) Hospitaler (levels 2, 4, 6, 8, and 10) Pious Templar* (levels 5 and 9) Radiant Servant of Pelor (levels 4, 7, and 9) Rainbow Servant (levels 2, 3, 5, 6, 8, and 9) Seeker of the Misty Isle (levels 2, 3, and 8) Shining Blade of Heironeous (levels 2, 4, 6, 8, and 10) Ur-Priest* (levels 1, 3, 5, 7, 9) Void Disciple (levels 2 and 6) Warpriest (level 8) [U]Complete Adventurer[/U] Daggerspell Mage (level 4) Maester (levels 2 and 4) Ollam (levels 2 and 4) Shadowmind (levels 4, 6, and 7) Virtuoso (levels 2, 4, 6, and 8) [U]Expanded Psionics Handbook[/U] Illithid Slayer (level 5) Thrallherd (levels 2, 4, 6, and 8) Warmind* (level 4) [U]Complete Psionic[/U] Anarchic Initiate (levels 5 and 9) Personally, I think this would open the door for a little more variety in these classes, and would help to give them the personality of the character, rather than the character being forced to adopt the "personality" of the class. What do you guys think? [/QUOTE]

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