Spider climb vs Monstrous spider

[marune]

Spider Climb
Transmutation
Level: Drd 2, Sor/Wiz 2
Components: V, S, M
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Touch
Target: Creature touched
Duration: 10 min./level
Saving Throw: Will negates (harmless)
Spell Resistance: Yes (harmless)
The subject can climb and travel on vertical surfaces or even traverse ceilings as well as a spider does. The affected creature must have its hands free to climb in this manner. The subject gains a climb speed of 20 feet; furthermore, it need not make Climb checks to traverse a vertical or horizontal surface (even upside down). A spider climbing creature retains its Dexterity bonus to Armor Class (if any) while climbing, and opponents get no special bonus to their attacks against it. It cannot, however, use the run action while climbing.

Monstrous spider, medium
[...]
Speed : 30 ft. (6 squares), climb 20 ft.
[...]
Climb +11
[...]
Skills: Monstrous spiders have a +4 racial bonus on Hide and Spot checks and a +8 racial bonus on Climb checks. A monstrous spider can always choose to take 10 on Climb checks, even if rushed or threatened. Monstrous spiders use either their Strength or Dexterity modifier for Climb checks, whichever is higher.

Movement Modes: Creatures may have modes of movement other than walking and running. These are natural, not magical, unless specifically noted in a monster description.

Climb: A creature with a climb speed has a +8 racial bonus on all Climb checks. The creature must make a Climb check to climb any wall or slope with a DC of more than 0, but it always can choose to take 10 even if rushed or threatened while climbing. The creature climbs at the given speed while climbing. If it chooses an accelerated climb it moves at double the given climb speed (or its base land speed, whichever is lower) and makes a single Climb check at a –5 penalty. Creatures cannot run while climbing. A creature retains its Dexterity bonus to Armor Class (if any) while climbing, and opponents get no special bonus on their attacks against a climbing creature.

CLIMB (STR; ARMOR CHECK PENALTY)
Check: With a successful Climb check, you can advance up, down, or across a slope, a wall, or some other steep incline (or even a ceiling with handholds) at one-quarter your normal speed. A slope is considered to be any incline at an angle measuring less than 60 degrees; a wall is any incline at an angle measuring 60 degrees or more. [...]

Climb DC Example Surface or Activity
0 A slope too steep to walk up, or a knotted rope with a wall to brace against.
5 A rope with a wall to brace against, or a knotted rope, or a rope affected by the rope trick spell.
10 A surface with ledges to hold on to and stand on, such as a very rough wall or a ship’s rigging.
15 Any surface with adequate handholds and footholds (natural or artificial), such as a very rough natural rock surface or a tree, or an unknotted rope, or pulling yourself up when dangling by your hands.
20 An uneven surface with some narrow handholds and footholds, such as a typical wall in a dungeon or ruins.
25 A rough surface, such as a natural rock wall or a brick wall.
25 An overhang or ceiling with handholds but no footholds.
— A perfectly smooth, flat, vertical surface cannot be climbed.

I'm currently examining spells that mimic skills and I noticed that strangly, spiders can't "walk" on ceiling in D&D while spellcasters can.

Did I miss something ?

 

[AuraSeer]

I'm currently examining spells that mimic skills and I noticed that strangly, spiders can't "walk" on ceiling in D&D while spellcasters can.

Did I miss something ?

I think so, yes. The spider isn't prohibited from traversing the ceiling, it just needs to roll a Climb check to do so.

The spider has a Climb bonus of +11, and can always take 10 because it has a Climb speed. That gives it full mobility anywhere the Climb DC is 21 or less. But nothing prevents it from climbing more difficult surfaces! If it does attempt to move to an area where the DC is 25, it needs to roll a Climb check, and get at least a 14 on the d20.

This means a monstrous spider doesn't stick to ceilings perfectly, and may progress slowly or even fall off if it tries to walk around upside down. That seems fine to me. IMO it makes sense that a hundred-kilogram spider can't defy gravity as well as its normal, one-gram cousins.

[Edited to add]
A spellcaster using spider climb does not need to make a Climb check in the same circumstance, because the spell explicitly says he need not roll. Where the flavor text says he can traverse ceilings "as well as a spider does," it's referring to an ordinary spider, not a monstrous one.

 

[marune]

This means a monstrous spider doesn't stick to ceilings perfectly, and may progress slowly or even fall off if it tries to walk around upside down. That seems fine to me. IMO it makes sense that a hundred-kilogram spider can't defy gravity as well as its normal, one-gram cousins.

Tiny Monstrous spider also have +11 to climb. Of course I know that they can make a check instead of "taking 10", but I don't think that "earth" spiders often fall from ceilings...

 

[Hypersmurf]

I think so, yes. The spider isn't prohibited from traversing the ceiling, it just needs to roll a Climb check to do so.

Only if the ceiling has handholds.

-Hyp.

 

[Kularian]

A spellcaster using spider climb does not need to make a Climb check in the same circumstance, because the spell explicitly says he need not roll. Where the flavor text says he can traverse ceilings "as well as a spider does," it's referring to an ordinary spider, not a monstrous one.

Only if the ceiling has handholds.

To a tiny (or smaller) spider, a small crevice might be considered a 'handhold.' So if these two are used in conjunction, it kinda/sorta makes sense.

 

[marune]

To a tiny (or smaller) spider, a small crevice might be considered a 'handhold.' So if these two are used in conjunction, it kinda/sorta makes sense.

But they would still need to make a check (11 + 10 = 21, DC is 25).

 

[Hypersmurf]

To a tiny (or smaller) spider, a small crevice might be considered a 'handhold.' So if these two are used in conjunction, it kinda/sorta makes sense.

Sure. But for the Huge Monstrous Spider, the DC to walk on a smooth ceiling isn't 25.

The only DC listed for "A perfectly smooth, flat, overhang or ceiling" is in the ELH, and it's DC 100.

-Hyp.

 

[Kularian]

True, true. Which is odd. I've never seen a spider fall off the ceiling before.

Perhaps non-monstrous spiders have a +12 racial bonus on climb checks?


DC 100? Wow. That's pretty intense. It'd be fun to put a bunch of creepy-crawlies in there and watch them be completely baffled at their constant failed Climb checks, lol. Flies sliding off the ceiling, beetles and others not making it up there. Spiders using their webs like mountain climbers...hehehehe.

 

[AuraSeer]

RL spiders have trouble on smooth surfaces too. They can't even climb out of a bathtub without help! Why would you expect one to stick to a perfectly smooth, flat, featureless ceiling?

 

[geosapient]

True, true. Which is odd. I've never seen a spider fall off the ceiling before.

I've seen a spider fall from the corner of two walls before when it tried to move quickly. Though I've never seen a spider fall off a ceiling either, I've never seen a spider try to run accross a ceiling.