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<blockquote data-quote="Tom Cashel" data-source="post: 365478" data-attributes="member: 321">This is a spin-off from Limper's gripe thread.It has been asserted that 3E D&amp;D is a &quot;dumbed down&quot; version of 1E.&nbsp; It is my opinion that this is not so.&nbsp; (This is not an attack on anyone; I just wanted to start a discussion about this w/o hijacking Limper's thread any more than it already has been.)Here's what I think:1E gives you tables and tables and tables of numbers that amount to the math worked out...e.g. the To Hit tables where you roll to hit, cross-reference with the AC you're trying to hit, and then see if you hit.&nbsp; Same for Saves.3E gives you the formula behind the tables, and asks you to do the math yourself.&nbsp; If you know the formula, you can figure out the Save DC for any spell without the need for tables.Now...this makes 1E more complex, insofar as there are lots and lots of tables, and lots and lots of rules.&nbsp; 3E streamlines those rules, and makes them work together (at times forces them to work together...nothing's perfect).&nbsp; In any case, I prefer to have the formula (10+spell level+ability mod.=Spell save DC) rather than the tables generated by iterations of said formula.[I think 3E's focus on CRs and &quot;balance,&quot; followed to the letter, can create a game environment that is much like a video game, where the foes increase in power in precise proportion to your character, and you'll never face anything you can't defeat (perhaps with a little luck).However, I don't play that way.&nbsp; My players know that everything they meet isn't there to be annihilated.&nbsp; They know the dangers of playing my game like a video game (i.e. that skeleton could be a lich, even if you're 2nd level.&nbsp; Better get crafty, start fast-talking, running away, etc.).&nbsp; In a general design sense, I try to keep the adventures balanced to their level.&nbsp; I want them to be challenged, and I don't want a TPK unless it's unavoidable for whatever reason (player stupidity, bad dice rolls, etc.).&nbsp; The CR rules are helpful, but they shouldn't define the game.]</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Tom Cashel, post: 365478, member: 321"] This is a spin-off from Limper's gripe thread. It has been asserted that 3E D&D is a "dumbed down" version of 1E. It is my opinion that this is not so. (This is not an attack on anyone; I just wanted to start a discussion about this w/o hijacking Limper's thread any more than it already has been.) Here's what I think: 1E gives you tables and tables and tables of numbers that amount to the math worked out...e.g. the To Hit tables where you roll to hit, cross-reference with the AC you're trying to hit, and then see if you hit. Same for Saves. 3E gives you the formula behind the tables, and asks you to do the math yourself. If you know the formula, you can figure out the Save DC for any spell without the need for tables. Now...this makes 1E more [i]complex[/i], insofar as there are lots and lots of tables, and lots and lots of rules. 3E streamlines those rules, and makes them work together (at times [i]forces[/i] them to work together...nothing's perfect). In any case, I prefer to have the formula (10+spell level+ability mod.=Spell save DC) rather than the tables generated by iterations of said formula. [I think 3E's focus on CRs and "balance," followed to the letter, can create a game environment that is much like a video game, where the foes increase in power in precise proportion to your character, and you'll never face anything you can't defeat (perhaps with a little luck). However, I don't play that way. My players know that everything they meet isn't there to be annihilated. They know the dangers of playing my game like a video game (i.e. that skeleton could be a lich, even if you're 2nd level. Better get crafty, start fast-talking, running away, etc.). In a general design sense, I try to keep the adventures balanced to their level. I want them to be challenged, and I don't want a TPK unless it's unavoidable for whatever reason (player stupidity, bad dice rolls, etc.). The CR rules are helpful, but they shouldn't define the game.] [/QUOTE]

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