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Message: <blockquote data-quote="N8theNoob" data-source="post: 9775516" data-attributes="member: 7054185">The death spiral is the fun part.HP is fine.<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Games are fun with stakes and attrition. Stakes: HP drops to 0, game over. Attrition: Burn all your HP on the minions and you will have nothing left for the boss.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Games are fun with good narration. HP tells a story about luck, evasion, near-misses, fatigue, stamina, the will to fight, until suddenly the well runs dry.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Games are accessible when they can be commoditized and digitized. Number go up, good. Number go down, bad.</li> </ul>What are the alternatives, and why do alternative systems feel rough around the edges? Noobs! Experienced players know the DEATH SPIRAL is not fun. Alternative systems aren't rough, they are just too sensitive for noobs, or you chose the wrong one!<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Anti-cinematic, predictable battles with beaten down heroes - not fun.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Book-keeping multiple health systems and calculating impairments - not fun.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Low stakes, tired, boxed in narrative about stubbing your toe (again) - not fun.</li> </ul>Tell me then, wise, faceless beards - have I fairly synthesized the challenge of playing without HP? Then, wherefore be I besotted by the words of yon sage warrior? Quoth he: "Every man hath his plan ere fist finds purchase upon his mouth."<h3>Making the Death Spiral Fun</h3>My goal in a TTRPG is a competitive role played combat sport. "Defend yourself at all times." <ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Role Played Combat: "You've dealt the final blow, would you like to tell us how you finish him off?" That's a fine game - maybe a hyper realistic combat simulation - but, I have not defeated a living, dynamic foe. I have defeated the rules, and along the way I have spiced it up with post-hoc narrative.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Competitive sport: "Tell us a story, we won't let the rules get in the way." That's a fine story. It's not a game. </li> </ul>Role playing vs. roll playing is a false choice. What does this game look like? At its best, it looks like riding the death spiral. How is that fun?<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Anti-cinematic, predictable battles with beaten down heroes - you are only telling half the story. A goblin that breaks your things until you finally finish him with narrative flair - that's not fun. When the goblin's kick forces you to drop your sword, do you grind away with d4 bludgeoning? Are you weaker every round while the goblin algorithm fights on with deific apathy? OR, do you grab a nearby branch, do you watch the goblin panic and lose his wits, see his eyes bulge as you pin him down and rob his flight? Attrition only makes outcomes more predictable when the foe is algorithmic, but my goal is not digitization. Overcoming attrition with grit is what epics are made of.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Book-keeping multiple health systems and calculating impairments - why? Why remove a mechanic to achieve a less abstract experience, then stop half way, or replace it with a different abstraction? The result is a game with multiple sets of rules - not fun. Impairments that are abstract (all your rolls suck now) - not fun. What could be less abstract, or require less book keeping than "PC/mob has 3 things. They lost one when punched in the mouth. Now they have 2 things." Repeat: This is my sword. There are many like it, but this one is mine. My sword is my best friend. It is my life. I must master it as I must master my life.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Low stakes, tired, boxed in narrative about stubbing your toe (again) - the death spiral won't be fun unless your goal is to role play a competitive combat sport. If you want to take the hit and move on, that's HP. You don't need a new system. If you want to narrate a battle and not get caught up in the rules, that's telling a story. There must be stakes, they must be mechanical and codified. That doesn't mean the seasoned adventurer runs head first into the meat grinder. Inventing tactics to survive which can also be role played plausibly is what this game is all about. Some ideas:<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">  My father's ceremonial dagger will have its day of vengeance, but today is not that day. It rests within my bedroll, inaccessible once the pace of battle quickens.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">  Stripped of her daggers but desperate to escape the pin of the drunken guard, Nim grasps for anything she can find within reach on the cell floor. GM: She finds a chamber pot.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">  Elador reaches for his notepad, inspired, but his discovery is lost to the recesses of his mind as in this moment he sees from the corner of his eye the bandits descend upon him.</li> </ul></li> </ul>These are principles, not a system. Though my influences may be obvious, others might not appreciate a noob promoting their game as the best example of a popular RPG anti-pattern. If you also enjoy riding the death spiral, these principles might help. They could be applied to any system (even those that combine HP with impairments). Do you try and create this kind of game at your table? How do you make it fun?</blockquote>

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