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General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Spirits- what can they do, and what can be done to them
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<blockquote data-quote="AbdulAlhazred" data-source="post: 4732240" data-attributes="member: 82106"><p>While I accept that DracoSuave's logic is reasonable, I disagree entirely that it is anywhere near as clear cut as he seems to think. Conjurations CAN be creatures. That is clearly stated in PHB2. Beyond that there are already rulings from WotC that say that a companion triggers OAs and provides cover to allies. That actually makes the rules MORE consistent because otherwise they are in a 'neverland' where they deny terrain to enemies but let allies pass (a feature of a creature), yet don't provoke an OA, etc. The ruling from CS on flanking (they don't provide it) is NOT inconsistent with that either, since they lack an MBA, which is a requirement to flank.</p><p></p><p>I see NOTHING in the rules which requires ALL creatures to have an MBA. It may bolster the 'not a creature' argument that they don't, but it is perfectly within the rules for a creature to exist which cannot make any attacks at all.</p><p></p><p>Now, if WotC seemed to be comming completely down on the 'its not a creature' side, I'd be perfectly happy with that and it would be a reasonably consistent interpretation. They aren't, and it isn't the only consistent interpretation. So I don't think it is good advice to tell people an SC is unequivocally not a creature. It just is NOT that clear cut. The issue of OAs and possibly flanking are simply open questions at this time, which have been addressed by CS with rules advice which we may interpret to mean they aren't sure either. No doubt the design team will address this issue soon enough since it seems to be generating a lot of questions. Once that happens THEN we will know for sure.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="AbdulAlhazred, post: 4732240, member: 82106"] While I accept that DracoSuave's logic is reasonable, I disagree entirely that it is anywhere near as clear cut as he seems to think. Conjurations CAN be creatures. That is clearly stated in PHB2. Beyond that there are already rulings from WotC that say that a companion triggers OAs and provides cover to allies. That actually makes the rules MORE consistent because otherwise they are in a 'neverland' where they deny terrain to enemies but let allies pass (a feature of a creature), yet don't provoke an OA, etc. The ruling from CS on flanking (they don't provide it) is NOT inconsistent with that either, since they lack an MBA, which is a requirement to flank. I see NOTHING in the rules which requires ALL creatures to have an MBA. It may bolster the 'not a creature' argument that they don't, but it is perfectly within the rules for a creature to exist which cannot make any attacks at all. Now, if WotC seemed to be comming completely down on the 'its not a creature' side, I'd be perfectly happy with that and it would be a reasonably consistent interpretation. They aren't, and it isn't the only consistent interpretation. So I don't think it is good advice to tell people an SC is unequivocally not a creature. It just is NOT that clear cut. The issue of OAs and possibly flanking are simply open questions at this time, which have been addressed by CS with rules advice which we may interpret to mean they aren't sure either. No doubt the design team will address this issue soon enough since it seems to be generating a lot of questions. Once that happens THEN we will know for sure. [/QUOTE]
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Spirits- what can they do, and what can be done to them
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