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Message: <blockquote data-quote="the Jester" data-source="post: 8752039" data-attributes="member: 1210">Expert wasn't the high level stuff. Immortals was. You can include Masters, too, I guess- maybe even Companion level. Now, I was all in on 1e at this point, so I didn't actually keep up with this stuff, but outside of Wrath of the Immortals, were there many adventures written for those sets? I'm not aware of many, but I think there were a few.SRSLY?? I've been making my position on this clear through the entire thread. But let's restate one more time.There is a real debate over whether there are few high level games because there's basically no support for them, or whether there's no support for them because there are few games at those levels. The last time we had real high level support- especially good high level support- was in the 4e epic destiny system, but even then, we had what, three epic adventures? And let's face it- the majority of 4e's adventures, especially the initial adventure path, belong on the Shelf of Shame alongside the 2e DMG and Sword and Fist. So here's the deal. You silo high level stuff into another book, and I pretty much guarantee that the amount of followup will be.... sparse. And I argue that because that's how it has worked in every edition of D&D. Despite this, there are groups that play at high levels, that enjoy high level play, and shouldn't have to buy extra material just to get access to maze spells and balor stat blocks. This proposal boils down to, "Screw the guys who like high level play even more than they are already screwed". I could be wrong, but is there some reason you guys keep claiming that siloing high level material into its own book will result in more support? Is there any kind of evidence that this is likely? Do you have a reason to believe that? Because I don't. 2e had the DM's Options: High Level Campaigns book. Ever seen that followed up with anything? We've already talked about 3e's ELH (though I don't think it's as bad as you seem to)- again, basically no support despite it being around for years of 3e's run. I'm arguing from experience, and it just seems like you guys are arguing based on a vague idea that a book means it will be followed up. It doesn't. We have seen this again and again.</blockquote>

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