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Split the Players Handbook into two books: Lower Tiers and Upper Tiers
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<blockquote data-quote="Yaarel" data-source="post: 8768992" data-attributes="member: 58172"><p>My impression is, you only like low level settings. That is a matter of taste.</p><p></p><p>For other players, high level settings are part of the D&D traditions.</p><p></p><p></p><p>As far as I know, only one page in Players Handbook mentions the tiers that way, and nothing else ever refers to it again.</p><p></p><p>The defacto tiers are four levels each, where the levels 9-12 feel − and have features that are − notably different from 5-8 and 13-16.</p><p></p><p>Each defacto tier also corresponds to the proficiency bonus, which improves every level. Each tier has feat as a capstone.</p><p></p><p>The four-level tier of levels 9-12 is important for flavor reasons, but also comes with meaningful mechanical differences from the other tiers. Significant class features can come online during this tier.</p><p></p><p></p><p>I love high level characters. I like tiers 13-16 and 17-20, and want characters that advance thru these tiers. Also, I want 21-24 epic characters to be standard.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Fighters getting complex noncombat abilities has everything to do with upper tiers, when their fellow partymembers who are spellcasters are gaining powerful noncombat spells, and lots of low-level slots to spend on noncombat.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Where there is a will, there is a way.</p><p></p><p>If players demand Fighter class options that are more competent at noncombat encounters, designers will make it happen.</p><p></p><p>For example, because most damage before getting Downed is nonphysical, a Fighter can easily "heal" or rather restore the nonphysical hit points, in the form of morale and first aid.</p><p></p><p>It is reasonable for a high-level Fighter to deal half damage on a miss. The Fighter technique is simply that effective.</p><p></p><p>Most spells can have some kind of mundane equivalent.</p><p></p><p></p><p>A Wizard doesnt "just" <em>Teleport</em>. The spell is dangerous if traveling to a less familiar location. Unless someone plans to start fight in their own house or favorite pub, the Teleport spell is useless in combat except to avoid a TPK at the last second.</p><p></p><p><em>Teleportation Circle</em> takes a minute to cast and requires planning long before ever casting it.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Combat includes Stealth/Detection and Mobility/Barrier, thus spells like <em>True Sight</em> are combat spells.</p><p></p><p>A "mundane" class might also have an effect like True Sight − to better sense invisible opponents or perceive fraudulent illusions.</p><p></p><p></p><p>The fact that 95% of players dont bother with tiers 13-16 and 17-20, suggests there are many issues that discourage players.</p><p></p><p>As for resource management. Counting arrows, calculating encumbrance, and tracking light sources are examples of unfun resource management. Not everything is fun for everyone.</p><p></p><p>That said, it is the combat that spellcasting needs to streamline. The noncombat challenges can still have a complex "junkyard" approach.</p><p></p><p></p><p>WAIT. You just said. COMPLEXITY is a problem at high levels.</p><p></p><p>Yes. That the point.</p><p></p><p>Also, I do want spellcasters including Wizard to specialize more thematically. I want this for flavor reasons, but it also reduces access to every spell.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I like high-level settings with high level challenges.</p><p></p><p>Dont make low level challenges for high level characters.</p><p></p><p>When characters <em>Fly</em>, dont waste time designing pits.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Yaarel, post: 8768992, member: 58172"] My impression is, you only like low level settings. That is a matter of taste. For other players, high level settings are part of the D&D traditions. As far as I know, only one page in Players Handbook mentions the tiers that way, and nothing else ever refers to it again. The defacto tiers are four levels each, where the levels 9-12 feel − and have features that are − notably different from 5-8 and 13-16. Each defacto tier also corresponds to the proficiency bonus, which improves every level. Each tier has feat as a capstone. The four-level tier of levels 9-12 is important for flavor reasons, but also comes with meaningful mechanical differences from the other tiers. Significant class features can come online during this tier. I love high level characters. I like tiers 13-16 and 17-20, and want characters that advance thru these tiers. Also, I want 21-24 epic characters to be standard. Fighters getting complex noncombat abilities has everything to do with upper tiers, when their fellow partymembers who are spellcasters are gaining powerful noncombat spells, and lots of low-level slots to spend on noncombat. Where there is a will, there is a way. If players demand Fighter class options that are more competent at noncombat encounters, designers will make it happen. For example, because most damage before getting Downed is nonphysical, a Fighter can easily "heal" or rather restore the nonphysical hit points, in the form of morale and first aid. It is reasonable for a high-level Fighter to deal half damage on a miss. The Fighter technique is simply that effective. Most spells can have some kind of mundane equivalent. A Wizard doesnt "just" [I]Teleport[/I]. The spell is dangerous if traveling to a less familiar location. Unless someone plans to start fight in their own house or favorite pub, the Teleport spell is useless in combat except to avoid a TPK at the last second. [I]Teleportation Circle[/I] takes a minute to cast and requires planning long before ever casting it. Combat includes Stealth/Detection and Mobility/Barrier, thus spells like [I]True Sight[/I] are combat spells. A "mundane" class might also have an effect like True Sight − to better sense invisible opponents or perceive fraudulent illusions. The fact that 95% of players dont bother with tiers 13-16 and 17-20, suggests there are many issues that discourage players. As for resource management. Counting arrows, calculating encumbrance, and tracking light sources are examples of unfun resource management. Not everything is fun for everyone. That said, it is the combat that spellcasting needs to streamline. The noncombat challenges can still have a complex "junkyard" approach. WAIT. You just said. COMPLEXITY is a problem at high levels. Yes. That the point. Also, I do want spellcasters including Wizard to specialize more thematically. I want this for flavor reasons, but it also reduces access to every spell. I like high-level settings with high level challenges. Dont make low level challenges for high level characters. When characters [I]Fly[/I], dont waste time designing pits. [/QUOTE]
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Split the Players Handbook into two books: Lower Tiers and Upper Tiers
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