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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Edena_of_Neith" data-source="post: 624081" data-attributes="member: 2020">JDavis, I think you have it right concerning Gandalf.    And certainly, I am not hearing complaints about Gandalf's return;  it would appear audiences are happy with what they saw.  I certainly could go for the idea that Gandalf did not die, but simply had such a will to live (for the good of his friends, if for no other reason) that he ... lived!    I must respectfully disagree with you concerning Arwen.  I think her appearance at Helm's Deep would have strengthened the story.  However ...  The fact you state you would have walked out, had Arwen appeared, is important.  Very important.  It is the reason Peter Jackson cut out Arwen at Helm's Deep, I believe.  Because the majority of the fans appear to agree with you, JDavis, and disagree with me, and they let Peter Jackson know how they felt.  Peter Jackson wanted to please the fans (or so he says!) and I would guess fan input affected what he cut from the film ... in other words, he cut Arwen out because the majority of people, like yourself, did not wish to see her there.  And that's fine.  It's still a great film, I think.  From the point of view of most people, it is a better film, and not a worse film, for the cutting of Arwen.  Heh.  I just happen to think otherwise.  But that's me!  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />  Obviously, time constraints also played a large role in the cut.  I do know that Peter Jackson originally filmed the scenes of Arwen at Helm's Deep.  Although this was cut, it is still to Peter Jackson's credit (in my opinion) that he originally portrayed her as going out of love, and not out of a desire for glory and renown.  Had he done that, I would have been disgusted.  Glory and renown in battle were more along the line of thinking of the Rohirrim, including Eowyn, but most certainly not to the wise daughter of Elrond Half-Elven.</blockquote>

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