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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Fanaelialae" data-source="post: 6581756" data-attributes="member: 53980">That list had spells from levels 2, 4, 8, and 9. Why focus on just Dominate Monster and Wish in your response when I certainly didn't limit the list to such? I assume that most tables will see level 2 to 4 spells.I think you're misinterpreting the intent of Melf's. It's a tactical spell, not a DPR spell. It's job is to knock out a creature's regeneration for two rounds (assuming that their regen is suppressed by acid). If you add in the 10 points a troll would otherwise regenerate over those two round (bringing the effective damage up to 35) it suddenly doesn't look bad at all.If you want to compare DPR use a spell designed for it, like Scorching Ray. The Ranger deals an average of 15.5 (going off what you posted above). Scorching Ray deals an average of 21, and has added advantages as well (can split the attacks between targets, three chances to crit vs one, and it's less binary than the Ranger's one arrow). Looks good to me. Sure, the Ranger can sustain that damage longer, but the martial classes need something going for them. In 5e martials aren't just there to get beaten on and take out whatever trash the casters don't feel is worth wasting a spell on. Martials are the shock troopers of 5e.As for that last point, again you're comparing apples with oranges. Any Warlock who wants to deal good damage takes Agonizing Blast and Hex, so his Eldritch Blast is dealing more damage than a Fighter's attacks on average. Only Battlemaster Fighters get Parry, and it only works once per round, up to four times between short rests (assuming you don't want to use any other maneuvers). It also only reduces damage and is based on Dex, so unless the Fighter is finesse based that's probably a maximum of 1d8 + 2 (avg 6.5, or 26 total per short rest). Not bad, but a warlock can cast Armor of Agathys to gain 15 temporary hp and additionally deal 15 damage to every creature that hits him until those temps are gone. The Warlock has two spell slots per short rest at that level, so he can soak up 30 damage, and he's dishing out 30 to 60 points of damage on top of that. The Fighter can heal 1d10 + level per short rest. The Warlock can fight effectively in a Darkness spell with Devil's Sight, or hit enemies from such a distance that they'll be dead before they ever reach him using Eldritch Spear. YMMV, but IMO, casters can do some amazing things even at low levels. Things that a non-caster can't ever hope do. While the closest I've played to date is a Paladin, I can tell you that as a DM I worry far more about how the spell casters will "ruin my plans" than what the Barbarian or Rogue will do.</blockquote>

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