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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Storm Raven" data-source="post: 1291047" data-attributes="member: 307">The Gray Havens. It is Cirdan's fortress in Middle Earth.Sam uses the rign when getting through Shelob's passages, but doesn't when going through the citadel, because by then to orcs have killed each other.The orcs attacking Helm's Deep were driven by Saruman's will and most were Uruk-Hai, better warriors than normal orcs. The orcs attacking Minas Tirith were led by the Witch-King and the other nazgul, who held them together. In the book, there are a couple of instances where orcs left to themselves engage in petty arguments that escalate into lethal violence. Many times they are shown as having to be driven into battle by their masters, whipped to fight in some cases.In every case in LotR where the orcs work together, they are led by a powerful force that dirves them into battle: the orcs of Moria are ruled by the Balrog, the orcs of Isenguard are ruled by Saruman, the orcs of Minas Morgul are led by the Witch-King. But the Witch-King is away, and Sauron's eye is elsewhere when the orcs in Cirith Ungol have their altercation.It depends. In the movies, it is pretty clear that doing what is right frequently means not doing the heroic thing, but rather doing the responsible thing. Faramir lets Frodo go, rather than gain glory from his father by taking the ring to him. Aragorn finally accepts kingship rather than continue to be a free man. Both Galadriel and Gandalf turn down the ring, which would allow them to increase their power (but corrput them) and oppose Sauron with their might.No. It is a different thing. Glory and a legacy are how you are remembered on earth. How you are judged in the afterlife is entirely different, unconnected to whether anyone remembers your deed on earth. Eowyn is clearly concerned about whether she will have songs written about her and be famous, and Aragorn (and Theoden) tell her that is not why you behave valorously. Theoden joins his fathers certain that he has done the right thing, but also certain that there will be no songs sung about him, look at his speech delivered in RotK (movie) before the Rohirrim charge. He clearly believes that they are all going to die, and there will be no glory, no songs.Direct quotes from character's lines (the hero's lines no less) in the movies are not actually in the movies?No. I didn't. You misunderstand what the difference between "glory" and "doing the right thing". Eowyn seeks glory, personal pride. By the end, she gives that up to be with Faramir. Note that her deeds go unremarked, and she doesn't bring them up. She has learned that responsibility is more important than gaining fame for what you have done.I believe this will be clarified in the extended edition when the Houses of Healing sequences are restored to the movie.</blockquote>

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