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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Brown Jenkin" data-source="post: 1291718" data-attributes="member: 2572">I think Tolkien might be amused by this discussion. While it can be argued both ways with the eagles my own personal feeling is that while the eagles technicaly qualify as deus ex machina, it is not the intent of the author to use them this way.  Tolkien's works rely heavily on the entire history of Middle-earth and draw from each other, with all things repeating in some ways. Beren and Luthien/Aragorn and Arwen (there are numerous parts to this alone); Isuldur claiming the ring at Mount Doom/Frodo claiming the Ring at Mount Doom; Sauron loosing a finger when he loses the Ring/Frodo losing a finger when he loses the Ring. The list goes on and on. With the eagles I feel Tolkien is once again trying to bring back a piece of history for us. This time it is the repetition of the events of the Battle of Five Armies. The statement from the RotK of "The Eagles are coming!" brought back the same emotion I felt when I first read Bilbo say the exact same thing in the Hobbit. Not only do the Eagles arrive at the nick of time as the final battle seems hopeless but Tolkien specificaly uses exactly the same words to anounce their arrival. Tolkien even brings up the relationship directly in the book with these sentences right after the eagles are first anounced, "For one moment more Pippen's thought hovered. 'Bilbo!' it said. 'But no! That came in his tale, long long ago. This is my tale, and it is ended now. Good-bye!'" While I can see that if you haven't read the books this could be missed I would point as well to the animated version of Hobbit. While this may not be the greatest of interpretations the coming of the eagles was not overlooked. Yes it is deus ex machina but the real message is not how something occurs but why and history repeating itself. Just like the ancient Greeks, Tolkien use of deus ex machina is not intended to give an easy answer but to get a larger point accross: History repeats itself.The other amusing thing about this discussion is that most of us are overlooking the real and literal deus ex machina of Tolkien. That is Gandolf. While we are argueing over the Eagles, Tolkien has wrapped his repetative and litteral use of the technique so well into the story we don't even notice it. Gandolf is a Maia, as tolkien describes them in the Silmarillion "Ainur of a lesser degree than the Valor" depending on your interpretation a lesser or demi-god, but divine and older than Middle-earth itself. This is the literal part, just as the greeks used it, it is a God helping out deserving mortals in times of need. So where does this come into the story.In the Hobbit: <ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Gandolf leaves and comes back to rescue everyone from the trolls. </li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Gandolf is "left behind" when the Goblins capture the party and then shows up to rescue them.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Gwaihir owes Gandolf a favor so helps the Party get to where they need to go.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Gandolf shows up at the lonely mountain just in time to mediate between the Elves/humans/Dwarves.</li> </ul>In the Lord of the Rings: <ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">At Rivendell to help Elrond save Frodo from certain (un)death.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">On the mountain as he lights a fire to save the fellowship from freezing to death.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">In Moria by being able to take out the Balrog.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">In Fanghorn to redirect the trio from their hobbit quest.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">At Edoras to kick out Wormtongue and restore Theoden.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">At Helm's Deep when he apears with the Cavalry and the Hurons at the last minute.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">At the Pelenor Feilds to rescue Faramir's company from the Nazgul.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">At the gate of Minas Tirith where Galdolf blocks the entry of the Witch King (Book and possibley the EE).</li> </ul>It is much more direct in the Hobbit which was a earlier less refined work, but its is definitely in the Lord of the Rings as well. Deus ex machina is all over the place but integrated extremely well. So well that its use as a legitimite litterary tool is shown off. The issue of the Eagles seems to me to be a case of misinterpretation of Tolkien's intent. By trying to get that one more reference to the past a slight ommision was made in covering its possible missinterpretation.P.S. Please excuse some typos. It is late and I got out of bed to put this down so it would stop bothering me and I could get some sleep.</blockquote>

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