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Message: <blockquote data-quote="green slime" data-source="post: 4450563" data-attributes="member: 1325">1) Given that most fights at the level being discussed are over in three rounds or less, in any given one fight, the most spells caster is going to unleash during a battle is not expected to exceed 6, ignoring prep.2) Given the standard 4 encounters / day, the most interesting focus should then be on the 24 highest level spells available. If you add more, you are deliberately slighting the comparisson in favour of the theurge. But this is more of a campaign specific trait, and is easily controllable by the DM.3) A single classed character has easier access to supplemental spells: The example wizard is capable of scribing a few 9th level scrolls to have handy. The theurge cannot. If he wishes those, he has to pay a premium price.4) Most spells allow saves. Casting an 8th level spell instead of 9th level spell means not only is that action that particular round doing less damage (and with a lower max caster level in your example 15th) So 15d6 instead of 20d6 for the 20th level wizard, the theurge will also suffer more opponents to make their saves (Save DC 19+Stat mod vs DC18 + Stat mod).5) The theurge must choose which stat to concentrate on, the specialist has no such quandries.6) the Theurge suffers greatly when you start to include Spell Resistance: In your example he is a wopping 5 levels lower! and far less likely to penetrate spell resistance for a level appropriate monster (d20+15 vs d20+20). Against SR 30, for instance, he fails 70% of the time, versus 45%! All of this show that counting purely "SPR" is a fallacy. Having a large number of 5th level spells available at 20th level in no way will compensate. IMX, the theurge classes add a lot of flavour to my campaign (they are tied to specific deities and/or organisations), but they are weaker than a dedicated spellcaster in a party situation, similar to the bard: handy to have, if the principle slots have been covered. As such, I'm glad they are around.</blockquote>

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