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General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
SPR: Quantification of the "Theurge-style" PrCls
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<blockquote data-quote="Dannyalcatraz" data-source="post: 4476350" data-attributes="member: 19675"><p>Like I've said numerous times before, I know its flawed, which is why I said it shouldn't be used as a solo tool.</p><p></p><p>However, its no more flawed than others.</p><p></p><p>Again with the A-Rod analysis for comparison: he hits for high average and hits a lot of home runs. Simply looking at those numbers in isolation would lead most baseball teams to assume that he'd help their teams win a lot of games.</p><p></p><p>And they'd be wrong.</p><p></p><p>Other stats about him indicate that he hits poorly in pressure situations, and most of his homers don't affect game outcomes. By some statistical tools, the highest-paid player in MLB is one of its worst hitters.</p><p></p><p>Similarly, using SPR alone to assert that one class is demonstrably better than any other would be idiotic. It has to be used in the context of all other available metrics.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>1) Experience isn't quite the same as statistics.</p><p></p><p>GG's aforementioned product examines 4 main arcane caster archetypes- Blasters, Controllers, Saboteurs and Support. Despite pages of statistical analysis, the product doesn't assert any one archetype as superior, nor either of the PHB's full arcane caster classes as superior.</p><p></p><p>Indeed, they seem to indicate that they are all very balanced versus each other.</p><p></p><p>2) As mentioned above, I actually AM using this as an option right now, and I'm desiging a second PC based on a similar feat from the PHB2 for future use. The hypothetical is real. See</p><p></p><p><a href="http://www.enworld.org/forum/general-rpg-discussion/239192-forked-thread-mage-brute-revisited.html" target="_blank">http://www.enworld.org/forum/general-rpg-discussion/239192-forked-thread-mage-brute-revisited.html</a></p><p></p><p>and </p><p></p><p><a href="http://www.enworld.org/forum/general-rpg-discussion/223891-mage-brute-build-help.html-" target="_blank">http://www.enworld.org/forum/general-rpg-discussion/223891-mage-brute-build-help.html-</a></p><p></p><p>IOW, I've been talking about doing this for months (long before coming up with this metric, btw), and have done so.</p><p></p><p>3) You and others are still getting hung up in the actual dealing of damage when the analysis <em>isn't about dealing damage at all</em>- its just a measure of arcane potential.</p><p></p><p>The damage? IGNORE IT. Drop the "d6" if you will- its just unit of measurement. Call them "wubblozes" instead. Whatever- just get beyond the point that I'm saying that using slots to deal damage is the way to go, because <strong>I'm not saying that at all.</strong></p><p></p><p>RAW, the feat itself requires at least 1 level of Sorc- that means that Warmages, Duskblades, Beguilers, etc. couldn't use it at all without multiclassing into that class.</p><p></p><p>But that is immaterial to the analysis.</p><p></p><p>All of the arcane casters use the same spell system, and all of their spells have all of the same incomparable variables. This analysis based on this feat cuts out those variables.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Dannyalcatraz, post: 4476350, member: 19675"] Like I've said numerous times before, I know its flawed, which is why I said it shouldn't be used as a solo tool. However, its no more flawed than others. Again with the A-Rod analysis for comparison: he hits for high average and hits a lot of home runs. Simply looking at those numbers in isolation would lead most baseball teams to assume that he'd help their teams win a lot of games. And they'd be wrong. Other stats about him indicate that he hits poorly in pressure situations, and most of his homers don't affect game outcomes. By some statistical tools, the highest-paid player in MLB is one of its worst hitters. Similarly, using SPR alone to assert that one class is demonstrably better than any other would be idiotic. It has to be used in the context of all other available metrics. 1) Experience isn't quite the same as statistics. GG's aforementioned product examines 4 main arcane caster archetypes- Blasters, Controllers, Saboteurs and Support. Despite pages of statistical analysis, the product doesn't assert any one archetype as superior, nor either of the PHB's full arcane caster classes as superior. Indeed, they seem to indicate that they are all very balanced versus each other. 2) As mentioned above, I actually AM using this as an option right now, and I'm desiging a second PC based on a similar feat from the PHB2 for future use. The hypothetical is real. See [url]http://www.enworld.org/forum/general-rpg-discussion/239192-forked-thread-mage-brute-revisited.html[/url] and [url]http://www.enworld.org/forum/general-rpg-discussion/223891-mage-brute-build-help.html-[/url] IOW, I've been talking about doing this for months (long before coming up with this metric, btw), and have done so. 3) You and others are still getting hung up in the actual dealing of damage when the analysis [i]isn't about dealing damage at all[/i]- its just a measure of arcane potential. The damage? IGNORE IT. Drop the "d6" if you will- its just unit of measurement. Call them "wubblozes" instead. Whatever- just get beyond the point that I'm saying that using slots to deal damage is the way to go, because [b]I'm not saying that at all.[/b] RAW, the feat itself requires at least 1 level of Sorc- that means that Warmages, Duskblades, Beguilers, etc. couldn't use it at all without multiclassing into that class. But that is immaterial to the analysis. All of the arcane casters use the same spell system, and all of their spells have all of the same incomparable variables. This analysis based on this feat cuts out those variables. [/QUOTE]
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