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Message: <blockquote data-quote="ZR" data-source="post: 400655" data-attributes="member: 4229">I posted the original thread.What I was questioning was the rather leathal outcome of an ambush I placed on a 13th level partyA rather helpfull halfling (Bluff 15) was helping the party to travers a glacier/volcanic hell whole. I won't go into the senario....but lets just say it invold manhole sized holes that entered an underground tullel. These were covered in illusionaly soil. Under the ground was a group of 5 evil halflings rouges (13th, 2*12th, 9th to the 6th level trainee).Party ranger was unfortunate to be at the front when the kind halfling disapperad on the other side of a rock. When the ranger moves in to look the higher level rouges, getting a foot-up from the trainee, spring out of a hole near the ranger. They all use a spring arttack to move in on the ranger, sneek attack and then tumble away down a whole.The next round the ranger is not supprised but I played that the little bastards could use their tumble ability (DC= 20+BAB) to avoid an AOO whilst moving arround the ranger to get in behind for a sneek attack. I played if they avoided the AOO they could sneek attackThe ranger went down at the start or round two. Was healed but unfortunatly walked straight  into another hole where he was pulled to the ground with a readied trip attack and then delt some stupid amount of damage from his now good friends. I like the idea of rouges useing tumple to flip over an opponent or sliding between the legs of an opponent and to then sneek attack. I just wonder how difficult this should be to keep if fair.Assuming that a char had to use tumble I currently I use:1/ a tumbe DC10 +BAB will get you arround a char into a position to flank/sneek attack if they are engaged with an opponent2/ a tumble of DC 20 +BAB if they are not otherwise preoccupiedA fail in 1/ means that there may be a AOO due but the thief may get a flank as normalA fail in 2/ means an AOO and no sneak possible.My next game will involve an attack on an assasins guild so I need to be confident as there is a high chance that this will be hard on the classes without uncanny dodge. I am sure a few will get nailed.</blockquote>

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