Spring Attack, Reach, and Attack of Opportunity

[willardthor]

Hi,

There are several questions here. I will first explain a scenario, and then extract questions from it.

Here, "I" am "my character".

Scenario:

I tried attacking a monster using Spring Attack the other day in a campaign run by a friend of mine. The monster had a reach of 10 feet.

I had first initiative. I wanted to jump into reach, strike (flying kick (Improved Unarmed Strike)), and leap back out again, landing outside the reach of the monster, without being struck by the monster.

The GM said I could not do that, that the monster would get an Attack of Opportunity on me.

Questions:
1) Isn't the monster flat-footed since I have first initiative, and thus does not get an Attack of Opportunity? (I think: yes)

2) Assuming that the monster was not flat-footed, don't I still avoid the Attack of Opportunity? Here is what Spring Attack says:

As a full-round action, you can move up to your speed and make a single melee attack without provoking any attacks of opportunity from the target of your attack.

Doesn't this mean that I avoid any Attack of Opportunity from the target, for whatever reason? (I think: yes)

3) Assuming that the monster was not flat-footed, and is annoyed at me Spring-Attacking it, can the monster ready an action such that when I leap in, it will attack me before I land my blow? (I think: yes)

4) Assuming the monster was not flat-footed, and that I did not have Spring Attack, when would the monster get an Attack of Opportunity, how many, and why?

• as I close in from the 10 feet reach to the 5 feet reach?
• when I move from the 5 feet reach out to the 10 feet reach?
• when I leave his reach altogether?

(I think: seemingly, 3 attacks of opportunity, one for each of the 3 threatened squares I exit (even if I exit a threatened square and enter another threatened square) ).

Different Scenario:
Let's turn things around a bit. Now I have a reach weapon (10 feet), say, a Guisarme. I develop the mean tactic of

• jumping towards an enemy,
• striking with the Guisarme, and
• jumping back again,

using Spring Attack. The opponent does not have reach.

5) Can he make a ready action such that, when I approach, he takes a 5-foot step and strikes me before I land my blow?

(I think: I hope the opponent can do this, otherwise this is very abusive...)

Thanks,
Willard.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

In order:

1) You don't get to take AoOs while flat-footed, unless you have the Combat Reflexes feat.

2) The whole point of Spring Attack is so that you can negate movement-based AoOs against the target of your attacks. Otherwise, it would be an even worse feat than it is already. You should not have provoked an AoO. And, even if you did provoke an AoO, it wouldn't mean that "you couldn't do that;" it would just mean the monster got a free shot at you while you tried it.

3) The monster can ready an action to hit you when you attack it; depending on what the monster decides to do, its attack would come before yours and, if it killed you, you'd never get the chance to attack.

4) Every time you leave a threatened square, you provoke an AoO. Thus, assuming a monster with a 10' reach (and no diagonal movement), you would provoke 3 times - once leaving 10' away and entering 5' away, once leaving 5' away and entering 10' away, and once leaving 10' away and entering 15' away. However, all movement-based AoOs are considered to be the "same" provocation, so the monster could only take a single AoO during your movement (but it could choose when to take it - probably at the first opportunity).

5) Different Scenario: Yes, but only so long as the opponent does not otherwise move during its turn.

 

[Steel_Wind]

Your GM is wrong.

Per RAW, you should not provoke using Spring Attack because of the way that the feat is worded. Please note that the wording is different from something like, say, the full round Withdraw action, where only the first 5 foot is free but the second five foot of withdraw vs. a reach opponent will usually provoke. That happens because of the way that the Withdraw action is worded, but Spring Attack operates differently.

Your GM may be upset with Spring Attack as it can be a very annoying ability to combat on the battlefield from the GM's perspective. Positioning your party correctly will permit the Spring Attacker to jump in and out of range if you have a decent movement speed.

There is nothing that prevents the foe from closing with you via a move action and attacking after his own move if he is fast enough to catch you, but Spring Attack will prevent the foe from using full attack actions against you as he has to move to catch you in the same round. Depending on how your party is setup near the foe, the foe may then end up provoking on your fellow party members if he tries to come after you. This presents a damned if you do, damned if you don't conundrum to the target of the Spring Attack. That's how it is supposed to work.

The common solution for GMs is to use multiple foes closely grouped together and interlocking fields of coverage where Aoos can be triggered on Spring Attacking PCs. The response to that from the PCs is for the fighter to use the BullRush/Drag combat manoeuvres to move a foe out of Aoo range to leave a target exposed to Spring Attack. More likely, it just moves the foe into "fireball formation", making them vulnerable to area attacks, too.

All of these extra layers of tactics and movement on the battlefield are GOOD THINGS. It helps make the tactical battlefield more dynamic and more fun. Rushing to the middle of the room, for the melee characters to thereafter remain largely static and immovable for the whole combat is frikking BORING and is easily the worst aspect of Pathfinder combat. Anything which tends to minimize this tendency is a GOOD THING.

Yes, GMs will find it annoying initially and may be inclined to ban it as a knee-jerk reaction because they think it is "broken".

It isn't broken, but it is powerful.

Spring Attack requires some new tactics from your GM and he will have to think his strategy through. He probably didn't have a chance to do this yet, so that explains why he ruled in the manner that he did. Spring Attack is powerful, but it also has a bunch of pre-reqs that are required before you can take the Spring Attack feat. It's not something that every PC will have, and tends to be a fighter only or more often, a rogue feat. (It is especially powerful for Anti-Paladins/rogue NPCs to take, as it happens, because it plays to the strengths of the Anti-Paladin's optimal range it wants to be at when combating PCs.) (For more on this, listen to The Black Knight on the Character Concept Workshop in Episode #013.)

Spring Attack works differently from many other attacks in how it does not provoke an AOO because the wording of the feat is different -- this is so whether your foe is flat-footed or not. Now, if you are moving through areas where there are multiple foes, it may very well be that you will provoke from somebody as you move as that attack originates from somebody other than the target of your spring attack. That's a very different point as the immunity from AOOs applies only to the target of your attack, not his allies.

Note: equipping a reach weapon to use while using a spring attack is permitted if you have the proficiency (glaive guisarme, long spear, etc.). As Research noted in Episode #013, the proficiencies that come with dipping into one level of fighter may make it very beneficial for many classes to dip one level into fighter if you are going for a Spring Attack hit and run style character.

In other Monk Awesomeness News, the forthcoming Ultimate Combat promises all kinds of martial arts goodness. Stay tuned.

 

[willardthor]

Thank you (both) for a thorough reply; this really clears things up.