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<blockquote data-quote="Magus_Jerel" data-source="post: 148506" data-attributes="member: 3940">Hmmm - seems like we have another problem caused by people's finite round concept of time...To simplify - use the action from your haste FIRST - not last.Why -Take the haste out of the equation - and impose the following grid.XXX0XXM-------WXXXXXXO = orcM = monkW = wizardI want to attack and go by the orc (possibly killing him) so that I am within melee striking distance of the wizard.&nbsp; I have spring attack.&nbsp; I can do this - right?(edit UBB code error)Not if you take the above wording.&nbsp; Once your move action is started - you no longer HAVE it - thx to the &quot;finite time&quot; of D and D.&nbsp; Said reading also makes spring attack more of an ennuch than toughness. Lets look at the relevant sentence from spring attack.The benefit of Spring Attack reads as follows:When using the attack action with a melee weapon, you can move both before and after the attack, provided that your total distance moved is not greater than your speed.The &quot;First order reading&quot; of this is:When you have this feat, taking an action of the category attack does not automatically end the move action you may be taking on your turn. Basically - this is the one cute feat that makes you go from &quot;finite&quot; to &quot;flowing&quot; combat time - and since people are stuck in finite time thinking (I get arguments like you only actually fall, blink, make saves ect... on &quot;your turn&quot; all the time... sheesh) they have real problems when confronted with this feat and situation.Usually, they have problems adjucating haste, expeditious retreat, boots of striding and springing, Time Stop, and similar high level powers/spells from the PsiHB as well.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Magus_Jerel, post: 148506, member: 3940"] Hmmm - seems like we have another problem caused by people's finite round concept of time... To simplify - use the action from your haste FIRST - not last. Why - Take the haste out of the equation - and impose the following grid. XXX0XX M-------W XXXXXX O = orc M = monk W = wizard I want to attack and go by the orc (possibly killing him) so that I am within melee striking distance of the wizard. I have spring attack. I can do this - right? (edit UBB code error) Not if you take the above wording. Once your move action is started - you no longer HAVE it - thx to the "finite time" of D and D. Said reading also makes spring attack more of an ennuch than toughness. Lets look at the relevant sentence from spring attack. The benefit of Spring Attack reads as follows: When using the attack action with a melee weapon, you can move both before and after the attack, provided that your total distance moved is not greater than your speed. The "First order reading" of this is: When you have this feat, taking an action of the category attack does not automatically end the move action you may be taking on your turn. Basically - this is the one cute feat that makes you go from "finite" to "flowing" combat time - and since people are stuck in finite time thinking (I get arguments like you only actually fall, blink, make saves ect... on "your turn" all the time... sheesh) they have real problems when confronted with this feat and situation. Usually, they have problems adjucating haste, expeditious retreat, boots of striding and springing, Time Stop, and similar high level powers/spells from the PsiHB as well. [/QUOTE]

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