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Message: <blockquote data-quote="swrushing" data-source="post: 1187145" data-attributes="member: 14140">Hmmm...Let me set my basis first. I own D20 Modern and its Arcana book. I do not own any Spycraft per se', but i have bought and am using in part, the Stargate Sg-1 game from AEg which is using the spycraft engine with the fluid initiative and such.My *complaint* about the Sg-1 book is that it represents the show AS IF the show were an agent techno-thriller military style game. The spycraft engine and specs they prted over into the game seem to me to be wonderful for representing that small scale miltiary style game. It reminds me of some of my earlier days in gaming where that much precision and leel of detail were seen as good.Between the two, I would say that  someone looking for a clancy-eqque hard-detail modern combat with military feel, i would say that Spycraft, the parts i have seen and the obvious extrapolations i would expect in their spltbooks which are all over the shelves, would be my first choice.Before someone with lots of time on their hands decides to jump out and call me rabid, remember, i do not like that take in the Sg-1 book, cuz the show does not focus on such things as much as say a clancey novel focuses on the gadgets and such. The fault i have is with the decision to represent the show that way, tho i think that, given that decision, the mechanics of spycraft works it well.D20 modern seems suitable for modern fantasy/horror with lighter emphasis on the precision and stuff. Now, all that said, i think the problem with both systems is using hit points. They both have different takes... Spycraft using a vitality and wounds (vitality = DND hit points and wounds ~ con, take wounds after all vitality are lost OR on criticals) while D20 modern just uses hit points BUT adds a massive damage roll whenever damage exceeds con, which means your 20th level drow might be dropped by a 9 damage hit, if her con is 8 for instance.) I dislike the notion of players "knowing" they can take the shot because they have lots of hit points.My own personal thoughts are that a damage save system, see MnM for one such example, handles firearms better than any of the hit points. If i were going to keep hit points for a modern military game, I would probably use spycraft and ADD-IN the d20 modern massive damage level = con thing.That may well be the best thing to conisder. Use one as a primary system and borrow good stuff from the other. Take a best of both worlds approach. The massive damage thing is an easy thing to port into spycraft. Of course, you could run d20 modern and use the spucraft things for source. (remember, i don't have those books so their usefulness is pure speculation.)A final note: I recall seeing third party source books on military ops D20 in the gaming store last week. IIRC it was called something like Guts and Glory or something like it. It seems very broad brush, but not bad.</blockquote>

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