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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Doc_Klueless" data-source="post: 131945" data-attributes="member: 261">I shall now bring my considerable intellect ( ::<img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f60a.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":giggle:" title="Giggle    :giggle:"  data-smilie="27"data-shortname=":giggle:" />:: ) to bear on the subject.First, lets look at the rule on p39: "If you have plenty of time (20 times the amount of time you would normally need for a skill check), and the skill you are attempting carries no penalty for failure, then you may choose to take 20. INstead of rolling 1d20 for your skill chek, calculate it as if you had rolled a 20. (Thus, if you skill bonuse is +5 and you take 20, your result is 25.) Taking 20 takes twenty times as long as making a normal skill check (e.g. a skill that normally takes 1 minute takes 20 minutes if you take 20). You cannot take 20 if failing the skill check carries any penalty, and you may not score a threat when taking 20."My reading on the rule is that you can choose one or the other: to roll to see if you get a 20 or to Take 20. But there are consequences to this decision. If you choose to roll, you could fail or not score 20 or whatever. If you choose to take 20, you give up the right to score a threat but you get your 20 (for succeed/failure but not Threat). Taken in this light, it's really not logical inconsistency. It's just stating that if you take this route, these are the limitations or  "choose your poison and accept the consequenses."It's not so much that they don't understand the d20 rules (I think saying that is a bit harsh. I think at most you could say that they "don't understand the Take 20 rule." Personally, I wouldn't even go that far.), but that they are applying the Take 20 rule in a manner not used before and rewriting it accordingly. After all, d20 doesn't normally mention critical failures/successes for skills. They've rewritten a rule (Take 20) and added a rule (critical success/critical failure). The new Take 20 rule modifies the new critical success/critical failure rules. It's all very simple, I think.Hopefully this was helpful. I would appreciate if replies to this would take into consideration that I'm trying to be helpful and that sarcasm and jibes will be kept to a minimum.</blockquote>

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