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Message: <blockquote data-quote="woodelf" data-source="post: 1080423" data-attributes="member: 10201">I haven't read D20M.  I've read the D20MSRD.  If there are differences between the two, that could account for it--but i was under the impression they were identical in rules, just less content in the D20MSRD.First, my mistake: i'm not sure how i misread the rules to get those figures in the first place.  Yes, the numbers of actual Action Points you get in D20M are much more reasonable than i'd first read them as.  Still insufficient, IMHO, but reasonable.  But i still don't like the implementation.  Your example of having used one in 5 levels actually sort of supports my point: different style of play.  *If* they're only going to be used every now and then, they're fine.  But theyn they don't really change the flow of the game, all they do is give you a slight boost in effectiveness.  IMHO, the strength of hero points, in general, is radically altering the flow of the game, so that more of that control is in the hands of the players, and less is in the hands of the rules.  D20M doesn't seem to be geared for supporting that style of play.  Which is fine for someone like you, who isn't going for that style of play.  But it, IMHO, defeats the purpose of having hero points in the first place.Not *quite* what i said.  What i said is that D20M has a crappy system in the book, and, if you're a D&D player you probably already have that particular system, only better (more detail, if nothing else) in the Psi Handbook.  Spycraft doesn't have a system in the core book, but there *is* a really awesome psi system in a supplement.  What i'm basically saying is that, *if* you want psychic powers that have any semblance of the genre as seen in book and film, you won't be satisfied with the D20M system, so it may as well not be there.  Or, IOW, awesome system in supplement beats useless system in core book.So, apparently Buffy the Vampire Slayer, 10th Kingdom, and The Prophecy are "modern", but James Bond, The Avengers (TV series, not superheroes), X-Files, VR5, Mission: Impossible, A-Team, GI Joe, Replacement Killers, and Men in Black aren't?  Are we using some new definition of "modern" that i missed?  One that includes elements that are rarely seen in putatively-realistic modern-setting entertainment, but excludes elements that are frequently seen in putatively-realistic modern-setting entertainment?It's precisely D20M's decision to support "real+magic" but not "real+superscience" that i'm questioning.You basically just said the same thing i did about D20M: it nominally has this system, but it doesn't really *do* anything with it.As for Spycraft: what i actually said is that it has all the ends of a reputation system, but gets there through different means, so it'd be harder to extend it.  But there's also less need, because the reputation effects in Spycraft better cover the genre than those in D20M do.Either the D20MSRD doesn't agree with the rulebook, or something's up here.  According to the D20MSRD, you are a lot more limited than that:So, without the feats, you can spray an area indiscriminately, using lots of ammo.  With the feats, you can control where you aim, or pump a single person full of lead.  That's not the same as having a chase system.  It's just the same rules as for people, but with bigger squares.  See my other post for more on this.That's because i've never read D20M itself, only the D20MSRD.  So i'm not going on speculation, i *do* know the rules.  But things like GMing advice aren't included in the SRDs.  As for my opinion of the GMing advice: give me any reason to believe it will be better than that in the D&D3E books.  Otherwise, pre-judging a book based on other books by the same company seems reasonable, if not guaranteed. And i did clarify that i was speculating.Yes, but there's a whole hoard of genres within "modern" for which i'd recommend Spycraft (or M&MM, or perhaps some other game) over D20M, and very few for which D20M is better-suited.  And, of those, i think most of them can be done even better by using 2 other games in combination (such as Spycraft & D&D).  So, in essence, i sincerely believe that D20M is really only the right choice for D&D Modern.  If you want something else, the effort to wing it with a different book will be the same or less than the effort to adapt D20M.  Not to mention that you can save your money and just download the D20MSRD, if that's *really* what you want.</blockquote>

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