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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Spatzimaus" data-source="post: 1034803" data-attributes="member: 3051">Originally posted by BLACKDIRGE They were unable to do much beyond fight. With low int scored from the -2 INT they had few skill points and were unable to partake effectively in many "Non-Combat encounters" which are prevelant in my game.-2 INT is hardly crippling.  Ask any Half-Orc.  Note how many skill points the classes your players chose gave: 4+INT, 2+INT, 2+INT.  If that Fighter had added a few levels of Rogue or Ranger, he'd have been just great for the non-combat stuff.  Even Barbarian would have been an improvement.  Instead, two of the three picked classes with really low skill points, in a campaign where non-combat encounters are common.  Bad, bad decision.The other problem is that so many combat-oriented people use INT as a dump stat that they hit the minimum of 1/level.  I played a Half-Ogre with an INT of 12.  Everyone assumed I'd be stupid, just because my race had an INT penalty, but I was smarter than half the party.  And, those extra skill points really came in handy.  As a Barbarian/Rogue/Fighter, I had plenty of skill points to go around.Also at low levels you would be surprised how much the loss of a single hit die can really hurt you.Not nearly enough to make up for the natural armor, reach, etc.  At level 2 (class level 1), MAYBE it's enough of a drawback, but once you have even two or three class levels under your belt the additional stat bonuses and such more than make up for it.  Put a level 6 Human Fighter side-by-side with a level 5 Half-Ogre Fighter.  Compare their attack bonuses, HPs, saves, ACs, and damage bonuses.  Even without the benefits of reach, the Half-Ogre wins that comparison easily.Also, the "lost HD" thing is common to all +ECL races.  It's hardly unique to Half-Ogres.  People WILL play races like Drow, even with these lost HD, simply because they get such great bonuses.The half-ogre fighter is the most obvious target for intelligent enemies and he would often find himself subject to an initial volley of arrows or javelins (they were fighting hobgoblins) that left him in the negatives.At low levels, if the enemies concentrate on ANY one player they can do the same thing.  Smart enemies might focus on the spellcaster in the back (who has less HP than even a level 1 Half-Ogre) instead.  So, the question becomes, why were they all targeting the Half-Ogre?Another problem half-ogre pc's have encountered is the lack of magical armor and equpiment made for their size.Armor isn't much of a balance issue for the Monks, Psychic Warriors, Rogues, Rangers, Bards, etc.  In 3.0, where magic armor resized and weapon sizes were absolute, it was a non-issue altogether.  In 3.5, it might be more of an issue, but only if your players wear only looted items.  Custom-made stuff can be whatever size you want.</blockquote>

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