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Message: <blockquote data-quote="drjones" data-source="post: 6381562" data-attributes="member: 62944">I was looking to make a thief/illusionist after playing some Baldurs Gate so I experimented with a few different builds for min/maxing and fitting the 'feel' of what I was looking for.  With the caveat that I was just theorycrafting them at level 10, have not play-tested any of this:From what I could see the Arcane Trickster is a thief with some minor spell tricks.  It takes till level 13 to even get level 3 spells and you never have many to chose from.  It's a fun rogue but not what I was looking for.AT/Bard can be close but it straddles Cha and Int for casting purposes and the spell list for bard is good but missing some of the wizard standards.At/Illusionist 50/50 is the most obvious but because you get 1 practical spell casting level for each 3 of AT you end up with the defensive thief skills like Evasion and more sneak damage which are cool but lose out on spell progression and will never see moderately high level sells.  The illusionist class features are not super great compared to some of the other schools but oh well.AT/Illusionist 3/x is what I think I am aiming for, sneak damage is not major but spellpower is great and spells like Greater Invis are castable without having to be real high level.To the OP, there are a lot of ways to do what you want but maybe dex-based Valor bard is the easiest?  They can fight and they can buff, though concentration makes it harder to only buff.</blockquote>

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