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<blockquote data-quote="Stalker0" data-source="post: 4288708" data-attributes="member: 5889">The final product is ready.Version 1.8 will be the last version for a while, barring on gross mistakes or things that people just find flat out offensive.As before, I am going to show the system here, and then I will detail what’s going on in the next post.For those who want to see version 1.0, you can get that here:<a href="http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=229796" target="_blank">http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=229796</a>First, some ground rules:1) If you don't believe the current system is broken, then please do not mention it in this thread, as this thread is for those who do believe it.2) This thread is to discuss my system, not for you to talk about yours. If you would like to post your own system, I would be happy to take a look and comment in your own thread. But please keep comments focused on what is presented here.VERSION 1.8 – “It’s Time to be Bold!”The skill DC and Complexity tables are the heart of the new system, carefully crafted to provide balanced skill challenges for a party. Complexity 4 and 5 challenges are especially difficult, generally for parties with stronger than average skills.Table 1. Skill DC Table[code][b]Level&nbsp; &nbsp; Easy&nbsp; &nbsp; Med&nbsp; &nbsp; High[/b]1&nbsp; &nbsp; 14&nbsp; &nbsp; 18&nbsp; &nbsp; 23[b]2&nbsp; &nbsp; 15&nbsp; &nbsp; 19&nbsp; &nbsp; 24[/b]3&nbsp; &nbsp; 15&nbsp; &nbsp; 19&nbsp; &nbsp; 24[b]4&nbsp; &nbsp; 16&nbsp; &nbsp; 20&nbsp; &nbsp; 25[/b]5&nbsp; &nbsp; 16&nbsp; &nbsp; 20&nbsp; &nbsp; 25[b]6&nbsp; &nbsp; 17&nbsp; &nbsp; 21&nbsp; &nbsp; 26[/b]7&nbsp; &nbsp; 17&nbsp; &nbsp; 21&nbsp; &nbsp; 26[b]8&nbsp; &nbsp; 19&nbsp; &nbsp; 23&nbsp; &nbsp; 28[/b]9&nbsp; &nbsp; 19&nbsp; &nbsp; 23&nbsp; &nbsp; 28[b]10&nbsp; &nbsp; 20&nbsp; &nbsp; 24&nbsp; &nbsp; 29[/b]11&nbsp; &nbsp; 20&nbsp; &nbsp; 24&nbsp; &nbsp; 30[b]12&nbsp; &nbsp; 20&nbsp; &nbsp; 25&nbsp; &nbsp; 31[/b]13&nbsp; &nbsp; 20&nbsp; &nbsp; 25&nbsp; &nbsp; 31[b]14&nbsp; &nbsp; 22&nbsp; &nbsp; 27&nbsp; &nbsp; 33[/b]15&nbsp; &nbsp; 22&nbsp; &nbsp; 27&nbsp; &nbsp; 33[b]16&nbsp; &nbsp; 23&nbsp; &nbsp; 28&nbsp; &nbsp; 34[/b]17&nbsp; &nbsp; 23&nbsp; &nbsp; 28&nbsp; &nbsp; 34[b]18&nbsp; &nbsp; 24&nbsp; &nbsp; 29&nbsp; &nbsp; 35[/b]19&nbsp; &nbsp; 24&nbsp; &nbsp; 29&nbsp; &nbsp; 35[b]20&nbsp; &nbsp; 25&nbsp; &nbsp; 30&nbsp; &nbsp; 36[/b]21&nbsp; &nbsp; 25&nbsp; &nbsp; 31&nbsp; &nbsp; 38[b]22&nbsp; &nbsp; 26&nbsp; &nbsp; 32&nbsp; &nbsp; 39[/b]23&nbsp; &nbsp; 26&nbsp; &nbsp; 32&nbsp; &nbsp; 39[b]24&nbsp; &nbsp; 27&nbsp; &nbsp; 33&nbsp; &nbsp; 40[/b]25&nbsp; &nbsp; 27&nbsp; &nbsp; 33&nbsp; &nbsp; 40[b]26&nbsp; &nbsp; 28&nbsp; &nbsp; 34&nbsp; &nbsp; 41[/b]27&nbsp; &nbsp; 28&nbsp; &nbsp; 34&nbsp; &nbsp; 41[b]28&nbsp; &nbsp; 30&nbsp; &nbsp; 36&nbsp; &nbsp; 43[/b]29&nbsp; &nbsp; 30&nbsp; &nbsp; 36&nbsp; &nbsp; 43[b]30&nbsp; &nbsp; 31&nbsp; &nbsp; 37&nbsp; &nbsp; 44[/b][/code]Table 2: Complexity Table[code][B]Complexity Table[/b]Comp. Success Failure1&nbsp; &nbsp; 3&nbsp; &nbsp; 32&nbsp; &nbsp; 5&nbsp; &nbsp; 43&nbsp; &nbsp; 7&nbsp; &nbsp; 54*&nbsp; &nbsp; 9&nbsp; &nbsp; 65*&nbsp; &nbsp; 11&nbsp; &nbsp; 7[/code]*These complexities tend to be very challenging to normal parties (only 51-56% win rate). A DM may consider subtracting 1 from the DC when using these challenges.Changes from 1.71) The easy DC at 11th level has been changed from 19 to 20 to prevent possible confusion.2) Complexities 4 and 5 have opened up to normal parties. They will provide a near 50/50 win rate for normal parties.Setting up a Skill Challenge:Allowed Skills: When creating a skill challenge, the DM selects 3-4 skills as the standard skills for the encounter. In some cases, the Dm will leave allowed skills open-ended, allowing the player to describe why certain skills should be allowed skills.Non-allowed skils: In some cases, a player will want to use a skill that is not allowed for the skill challenge. If the player’s argument is convincing enough, the DM may place the skill on the allowed list. However, if the DM wishes to allow the skill in a limited fashion, he can allow it with Guiding Light only. Never penalize a player by allowing it with a hard DC, as this not only penalizes the player, but every player in the challenge!Setting up Skills: All allowed skills are given a medium difficult. Easy and Hard difficulties are only designed for special rolls during the challenge.Optional Setup Rules for the DMSkill Tags: If a DM wishes to spice up a challenge a bit, he can add various tags to some of the skills in a challenge, to let players get extra benefit when doing certain actions. Here are some example tags:Bold: A skill that has the bold tag is particularly helpful when making heroic actions. If the player uses a heroic surge when using a bold skill, he gets an extra +1. If he uses Bold Recovery with the skill, he gains a +2 to the roll.Helpful: These skills are particularly useful when helping out another player. If the Guiding Light uses a helpful skill, he provides a +3 power bonus to another's skill check (instead of +2).Secondary: Secondary skills are linked to another skill (the primary skill), and cannot be used at the beginning of the challenge. Whenever a player gets a success with the primary skill, and also would have beaten the hard DC, the secondary skill is unlocked, and can be used for the rest of the challenge. Secondary skills often have special tags and benefits as well.Playing in a Skill Challenge:Guiding Light (Easy): Each round the party can choose one character to be a Guiding Light, which is generally the character with the lowest skill bonus for the challenge. Instead of the character's normal turn, he rolls an allowed skill check that does not count as a success or failure. If he beats an easy DC, he can do the following:1) Provide another character a +2 power bonus to his next skill check.2) Reroll one of his own skill checks later in the challenge, though he must take the new result. He can accumulate multiple rerolls should he be a Guiding Light multiple times.Heroic Surge: Before making a skill check, you may spend a healing surge to get a +2 to your skill check. If the skill challenge has entered the Time of Trials (see below), heroic surge provides a +3. Each character can use heroic surge once per skill challenge.The Time of Trials:A skill challenge enters the time of trials when the party accumulates their second to last failure. In other words, one more failure will end the skill challenge for the party. During the time of trials, the party receives the following benefits:1)&nbsp; &nbsp; When using heroic surge, the character receives a +3 to skill checks (instead of the normal +2)2)&nbsp; &nbsp; All characters can now use the Bold Recovery skill check (see below).Bold Recovery (Hard):&nbsp; During the time of trials, a player can use a bold recovery as an immediate reaction whenever another player rolls a failure. The player rolls an allowed skill at a hard DC. If he fails, the skill challenge ends in a failure.On a success, he adds +4 to the failed players roll, or a +6 if he takes a -5 to his skill check. If the +4 (+6) turns the failed roll into a success, the failure is negated and the skill challenge continues to the next player. Each player can use Bold Recovery once per skill challenge, but never on their own rolls.Example Skill Challenge: The Negotiation.Complexity: 2 (5 successes before 4 failures)Allowed Skills: Bluff, Diplomacy, InsightDiplomacy: You use persuasion to win aid to your cause. If you get a success and also would have beaten a hard DC, you unlock the History Skill.History (Secondary, Helpful): History is unlocked through the diplomacy skill. It is especially useful when helping other party members, if you use the skill while you are a Guiding Light, you provide a +3 to a skill (instead of +2).Bluff (Daring): You try to convince the other party using false pretenses. If you use a heroic surge with bluff, you gain an additional +1. You also gain a +2 to your roll if you use it with a Bold Recovery.Insight: You empathize with the NPC and use that to encourage assistance.Change log from Version 1.71) Aid Another is now called Guiding Light.2) Guiding Light now gives the character a skill reroll on a success, in addition to the normal +2 he provides.3) Guiding Light now provides a power bonus to skill rolls.4) Heroic Surge now provides a +2 bonus to skill rolls normally, and a +3 while in the Time of Trials (changed from +1/+2)For more detailed information on the system, especially for DMs who would like to tweak it, look to the next post.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Stalker0, post: 4288708, member: 5889"] The final product is ready. Version 1.8 will be the last version for a while, barring on gross mistakes or things that people just find flat out offensive. As before, I am going to show the system here, and then I will detail what’s going on in the next post. For those who want to see version 1.0, you can get that here: [url]http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=229796[/url] First, some ground rules: 1) If you don't believe the current system is broken, then please do not mention it in this thread, as this thread is for those who do believe it. 2) This thread is to discuss my system, not for you to talk about yours. If you would like to post your own system, I would be happy to take a look and comment in your own thread. But please keep comments focused on what is presented here. [B]VERSION 1.8 – “It’s Time to be Bold!”[/B] The skill DC and Complexity tables are the heart of the new system, carefully crafted to provide balanced skill challenges for a party. Complexity 4 and 5 challenges are especially difficult, generally for parties with stronger than average skills. Table 1. Skill DC Table [code][b]Level Easy Med High[/b] 1 14 18 23 [b]2 15 19 24[/b] 3 15 19 24 [b]4 16 20 25[/b] 5 16 20 25 [b]6 17 21 26[/b] 7 17 21 26 [b]8 19 23 28[/b] 9 19 23 28 [b]10 20 24 29[/b] 11 20 24 30 [b]12 20 25 31[/b] 13 20 25 31 [b]14 22 27 33[/b] 15 22 27 33 [b]16 23 28 34[/b] 17 23 28 34 [b]18 24 29 35[/b] 19 24 29 35 [b]20 25 30 36[/b] 21 25 31 38 [b]22 26 32 39[/b] 23 26 32 39 [b]24 27 33 40[/b] 25 27 33 40 [b]26 28 34 41[/b] 27 28 34 41 [b]28 30 36 43[/b] 29 30 36 43 [b]30 31 37 44[/b][/code] Table 2: Complexity Table [code][B]Complexity Table[/b] Comp. Success Failure 1 3 3 2 5 4 3 7 5 4* 9 6 5* 11 7[/code] *These complexities tend to be very challenging to normal parties (only 51-56% win rate). A DM may consider subtracting 1 from the DC when using these challenges. [i]Changes from 1.7[/i] 1) The easy DC at 11th level has been changed from 19 to 20 to prevent possible confusion. 2) Complexities 4 and 5 have opened up to normal parties. They will provide a near 50/50 win rate for normal parties. [SIZE=4][b]Setting up a Skill Challenge:[/b][/SIZE] [b]Allowed Skills:[/b] When creating a skill challenge, the DM selects 3-4 skills as the standard skills for the encounter. In some cases, the Dm will leave allowed skills open-ended, allowing the player to describe why certain skills should be allowed skills. [b]Non-allowed skils:[/b] In some cases, a player will want to use a skill that is not allowed for the skill challenge. If the player’s argument is convincing enough, the DM may place the skill on the allowed list. However, if the DM wishes to allow the skill in a limited fashion, he can allow it with Guiding Light only. Never penalize a player by allowing it with a hard DC, as this not only penalizes the player, but every player in the challenge! [b]Setting up Skills:[/b] All allowed skills are given a medium difficult. Easy and Hard difficulties are only designed for special rolls during the challenge. [B][SIZE=3]Optional Setup Rules for the DM[/SIZE][/B] [b]Skill Tags:[/b] If a DM wishes to spice up a challenge a bit, he can add various tags to some of the skills in a challenge, to let players get extra benefit when doing certain actions. Here are some example tags: [i]Bold:[/i] A skill that has the bold tag is particularly helpful when making heroic actions. If the player uses a heroic surge when using a bold skill, he gets an extra +1. If he uses Bold Recovery with the skill, he gains a +2 to the roll. [i]Helpful:[/i] These skills are particularly useful when helping out another player. If the Guiding Light uses a helpful skill, he provides a +3 power bonus to another's skill check (instead of +2). [i]Secondary:[/i] Secondary skills are linked to another skill (the primary skill), and cannot be used at the beginning of the challenge. Whenever a player gets a success with the primary skill, and also would have beaten the hard DC, the secondary skill is unlocked, and can be used for the rest of the challenge. Secondary skills often have special tags and benefits as well. [SIZE=4][b]Playing in a Skill Challenge:[/b][/SIZE] [b]Guiding Light (Easy):[/b] Each round the party can choose one character to be a Guiding Light, which is generally the character with the lowest skill bonus for the challenge. Instead of the character's normal turn, he rolls an allowed skill check that does not count as a success or failure. If he beats an easy DC, he can do the following: 1) Provide another character a +2 power bonus to his next skill check. 2) Reroll one of his own skill checks later in the challenge, though he must take the new result. He can accumulate multiple rerolls should he be a Guiding Light multiple times. [b]Heroic Surge:[/b] Before making a skill check, you may spend a healing surge to get a +2 to your skill check. If the skill challenge has entered the Time of Trials (see below), heroic surge provides a +3. Each character can use heroic surge once per skill challenge. [b]The Time of Trials:[/b]A skill challenge enters the time of trials when the party accumulates their second to last failure. In other words, one more failure will end the skill challenge for the party. During the time of trials, the party receives the following benefits: 1) When using [i]heroic surge[/i], the character receives a +3 to skill checks (instead of the normal +2) 2) All characters can now use the [i]Bold Recovery[/i] skill check (see below). [b]Bold Recovery (Hard):[/b] During the time of trials, a player can use a bold recovery as an immediate reaction whenever another player rolls a failure. The player rolls an allowed skill at a hard DC. If he fails, the skill challenge ends in a failure. On a success, he adds +4 to the failed players roll, or a +6 if he takes a -5 to his skill check. If the +4 (+6) turns the failed roll into a success, the failure is negated and the skill challenge continues to the next player. Each player can use Bold Recovery once per skill challenge, but never on their own rolls. [B]Example Skill Challenge: The Negotiation.[/B] Complexity: 2 (5 successes before 4 failures) Allowed Skills: Bluff, Diplomacy, Insight [b]Diplomacy:[/b] You use persuasion to win aid to your cause. If you get a success and also would have beaten a hard DC, you unlock the History Skill. [INDENT][b]History (Secondary, Helpful):[/b] History is unlocked through the diplomacy skill. It is especially useful when helping other party members, if you use the skill while you are a Guiding Light, you provide a +3 to a skill (instead of +2).[/indent] [b]Bluff (Daring):[/b] You try to convince the other party using false pretenses. If you use a heroic surge with bluff, you gain an additional +1. You also gain a +2 to your roll if you use it with a Bold Recovery. [b]Insight:[/b] You empathize with the NPC and use that to encourage assistance. [i]Change log from Version 1.7[/i] 1) Aid Another is now called Guiding Light. 2) Guiding Light now gives the character a skill reroll on a success, in addition to the normal +2 he provides. 3) Guiding Light now provides a power bonus to skill rolls. 4) Heroic Surge now provides a +2 bonus to skill rolls normally, and a +3 while in the Time of Trials (changed from +1/+2) For more detailed information on the system, especially for DMs who would like to tweak it, look to the next post. [/QUOTE]

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