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<blockquote data-quote="Celebrim" data-source="post: 7559663" data-attributes="member: 4937">Oh that.&nbsp; Yeah, you aren't even going to touch that with this change.&nbsp; You need to make a much bigger set of changes.&nbsp; The most effective one that has worked for me is no longer increasing the DC of the spell's saving throw with the level of the spell.&nbsp; That in and of itself does so much to bring balance to things, because it brings spellcaster's back to the problem they faced in 1e where eventually most things reliably made their saving throw.&nbsp; It does wonders to reduce save or suck problems, and it balances direct damage reasonably well as well.&nbsp; There are a lot of other changes you need make to bring that under control, including rewriting a lot of spells to have less absolute pass/fail effects and more quantifiable effects, increasing the tier of the martial classes like rogue and fighter and decreasing the tier of cleric and druid, but those are complex changes.&nbsp; If you are just looking for one, nerf spellcaster DC.That's an interesting approach.&nbsp; I'm not sure I'd recommend it, but it does deal with the Christmas tree problem.If your problem is spellcaster/non-spellcaster balance rather than simply wanting fights to be more tactical, I'd attack the problem from completely different directions.&nbsp; For the purposes of balancing spellcaster/non-spellcaster, it's actually as I indicated above more important to lock spellcasters down.One thing to keep in mind in comparing your 3.X experiences to your 5e experiences is that monsters in 5e have far more hit points, and save or suck is far less effective.&nbsp; So 5e monsters have to be whittled down, something not generally true of 3.X.&nbsp;&nbsp; I can give you rules for bumping up the 3.X hit points to a more reasonable level but unless you also nerf save or suck that won't help your problems.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Celebrim, post: 7559663, member: 4937"] Oh that. Yeah, you aren't even going to touch that with this change. You need to make a much bigger set of changes. The most effective one that has worked for me is no longer increasing the DC of the spell's saving throw with the level of the spell. That in and of itself does so much to bring balance to things, because it brings spellcaster's back to the problem they faced in 1e where eventually most things reliably made their saving throw. It does wonders to reduce save or suck problems, and it balances direct damage reasonably well as well. There are a lot of other changes you need make to bring that under control, including rewriting a lot of spells to have less absolute pass/fail effects and more quantifiable effects, increasing the tier of the martial classes like rogue and fighter and decreasing the tier of cleric and druid, but those are complex changes. If you are just looking for one, nerf spellcaster DC. That's an interesting approach. I'm not sure I'd recommend it, but it does deal with the Christmas tree problem. If your problem is spellcaster/non-spellcaster balance rather than simply wanting fights to be more tactical, I'd attack the problem from completely different directions. For the purposes of balancing spellcaster/non-spellcaster, it's actually as I indicated above more important to lock spellcasters down. One thing to keep in mind in comparing your 3.X experiences to your 5e experiences is that monsters in 5e have far more hit points, and save or suck is far less effective. So 5e monsters have to be whittled down, something not generally true of 3.X. I can give you rules for bumping up the 3.X hit points to a more reasonable level but unless you also nerf save or suck that won't help your problems. [/QUOTE]

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