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Message: <blockquote data-quote="CapnZapp" data-source="post: 7288549" data-attributes="member: 12731">Yes, I'm talking about one character in a party.I'm not talking about the whole party, but I'm not talking about an isolated character either. But please, don't get sidetracked off topic here. If you want to discuss the kinds of DPR that you can reach in 5e, let's not do that here.In this thread, I just needed to provide a second opinion to the claim a whole party would do as little as 100 DPR even at level ten. Why? Not to brag, not even for a second. Why then?Because if a reader truly believes 100 DPR is the norm, or worse, the max, then that makes monsters look almost normal, and the whole "easy mode" complaint against 5e becomes incomprehensible. Let's instead focus on what posters have been saying previously:Demons are a joke. A dragon can't survive long enough to breathe even twice. High level monsters generally don't have even the Dragon's flight speed. They couldn't perform the suggested "snatch the caster and murderize him off-screen" even if they wanted to (and even if the DM wanted to).Again, you really need to look back to see the context here.Take any big CR "boss monster" (that is, a monster that is supposed to come in just one copy, and sometimes even without any henchmen). Go look this monster up in the d20 SRD.You will find two things. First, the stat block is hideously complicated, with a lot of niggly little stuff that just won't have any impact but is a batch to build. You should also know that the monster probably has access to spells, or spell-like abilities, or a house caster, so you'll need to recalculate lots of figures on top of the existing mess...And all that is gone in 5e, which is a HUGE relief. But notice that the d20 monster also probably had two (or five) special tricks (spells, abilities, items, etc) that allows it to move about the battlefield, escape a player grapple (or paralysed status). It might be able to cast a few area debuffs. Tools of the trade (when your trade is fighting mid- to high level heroes).Now look at the sorry excuse for a 5e version. Almost all of it - gone.This is why I maintain that the designers threw out the baby with the bathwater. Massively reducing the clutter of 3e - good. Reducing spell buffing - better. Making monsters work on different (simpler) rules than player characters - best.But treating high level just like low level but with bigger numbers? Forgetting that at high level, a monster needs several tricks you simply don't need at low level?The fact is that the Monster Manual comes across as written by a naive designer, neither experienced with high level play, nor aware of what the PHB actually hands out to player characters (especially as they reach tier III).Sent from my C6603 using <a href="http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=93205" target="_blank">EN World mobile app</a></blockquote>

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